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Coal free Britain
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Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 16 10:52 am    Post subject: Coal free Britain  Reply with quote    

Britain gets no power from coal for 'first time on record'

Quote:
Britain generated no electricity from coal on Tuesday morning for what is believed to be the first time since the 19th century, in a major milestone in the decline of the polluting power source.

National Grid confirmed that none of Britainís coal stations were running between midnight and 4am.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 33600
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 16 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I read that, and it made me wonder. Is it sensible? I mean, it's going to happen as we stop burning coal/oil, but there must be big coal fires going to run power stations. Did we really turn them off for four hours? Don't they take about a billion hours to turn on and off?

Behemoth



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 18963
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 16 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

No coal was burned to generate electricity. Plenty will have been burned to maintain stand-by. I guess.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 16 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

There's plenty of people saying similar things, but it is the first time it's happened (apparently), which must be progress.

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 3952
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 16 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/10/breakdowns-force-national-grid-to-issue-power-supply-crunch-aler/

Now,that is progress for you.

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 26513
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 16 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Once mines close they cannot be reopened.
Progress would have investment in cleaner coal and a planned transition, e.g. not flipping to the next most short term profitable energy source.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8482

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 16 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I would agree with that Jema. It also seems that there are too many aging power stations and not enough investment to make sure that other power, ideally renewable, but of any sort, is available. While I strongly believe in being at least partly self sufficient, not everyone has that luxury and may rely upon electricity.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 33600
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 16 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Power clearly was available tho. The lights didn't go off.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8482

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 16 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

They always have several power stations on standby so that the lights don't go out Nick. It is a marvel of planning to keep the electricity going, and those dealing with it are definitely the unsung heroes of the system, so if any of you are reading this thread; Thank you.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 32618
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 16 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

imported wood pellet is cheaper than imported coal and the more modern solid fuel power plants are multi fuel capable.?

low demand so low need of solid fuel capacity.?

low prices for oil/gas so those running at max.?

a good greenwashing headline even if it is true for only a few hours

iirc solid fuel plants can be run on a minimum burn (with the turbines off line)and stoked up fairly quickly to produce enough steam to make leccy but take a while to warm up from cold if the fire is out so they may have been burning coal but not making leccy from the heat.

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 3952
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 16 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Wood pellet maybe cheaper,but they burn more than the equivalent tonnage of coal,

Regarding cheaper oil and gas at present,if this new carbon tax goes through even these will be taxed higher like coal and will be fazed out,and that is going to be an interesting future.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/14/the-fifth-carbon-budget---the-most-insane-act-passed-by-parliame

Shane



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 3028
Location: Doha. Is hot.
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 16 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

For a carbon tax to be successful, it needs to be globally applied and rigidly policed. If it's brought in across the UK in isolation, all our energy-intensive businesses will close down overnight (or require heavy government subsidies), and we'll end up importing the products that they produce from countries that don't have a carbon tax.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8482

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 16 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Well you don't expect politicians to work that out do you Shane? Anyway they want to get rid of what heavy industry we have as it doesn't fit in with their policies.

It seems daft importing wood chip for several reasons. First it is bulky and as Ty Gwyn says, has a lower calorific value than coal. Secondly the risk of importing pests and diseases is high. This is coming mainly from the US where they have several nasties we definitely don't want, and thirdly, it is very wasteful if fuel transporting something like that; probably uses as much fossil fuel as it saves.

To me the most sensible route is to use the most efficient coal power stations using British coal and work hard at developing renewable energy production, but that would be too easy.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 16 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Shane wrote:
For a carbon tax to be successful, it needs to be globally applied and rigidly policed. If it's brought in across the UK in isolation, all our energy-intensive businesses will close down overnight (or require heavy government subsidies), and we'll end up importing the products that they produce from countries that don't have a carbon tax.


That is the problem for most of the pro-EU points being made recently, we've exported much of our environment, wildlife & human rights issues.

Shane



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 3028
Location: Doha. Is hot.
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 16 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Mistress Rose wrote:
To me the most sensible route is to use the most efficient coal power stations using British coal...
Unfortunately, the government recently withdrew the 1bn quid they'd set aside for CCS research

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