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Eeek. Dangers of car DIY
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vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21297
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 13 3:45 pm    Post subject: Eeek. Dangers of car DIY  Reply with quote    

We've all heard tales of people injuring or killing themselves while performing DIY car mechanics (I know someone whose brother was crushed to death under a vehicle) but what I didn't know was ...

Quote:
Certain types and synthetic rubber such as that found in O rings, oil seals, fuel hoses etc. when exposed to temps above 400C generate hydrofluoric acid. This can remain active for years and if it get onto skin may mean the limb has to be amputated.


I read this while munching on toasted Soreen in a Haynes manual. Choking hazard.

oldish chris



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 4148
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 13 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I don't believe it. Using my favourite search engine I found a Material Safety Data Sheet for hydrofluoric acid. The dangers are, as expected, on immediate contact with the acid. Low concentrations of hydrogen fluoride in the air are more of an irritant:
Quote:
Chronic Potential Health Effects: Repeated exposure to airborne concentrations of 3 ppm or less could be tolerated with no apparent ill effects for 6 hours/day for up to 50 days;


I would have thought that the products of partially combusted plastic would be more dangerous.

vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21297
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 13 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Change your search engine...

"(c) Skin Contact: Corrosive to the skin. Skin contact causes serious skin burns which may not be immediately apparent or painful. Symptoms may be delayed 8 hours or longer. The fluoride ion readily penetrates the skin causing destruction of deep tissue layers and even bone."

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 33600
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 13 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Toasted Soreen contains acrylamide, which is an accumulative neurotoxin, which can cause cancer increasing tumors in the nervous system, oral cavity, peritoneum, thyroid gland, mammary gland, uterus, and clitoris.

vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21297
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 13 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I wondered where that had got to.

oldish chris



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 4148
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 13 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

vegplot wrote:
Change your search engine...

"(c) Skin Contact: Corrosive to the skin. Skin contact causes serious skin burns which may not be immediately apparent or painful. Symptoms may be delayed 8 hours or longer. The fluoride ion readily penetrates the skin causing destruction of deep tissue layers and even bone."
are you thinking of a concentrated aqueous solution of HF or a whiff of smoke that may contain several ppm?

vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21297
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 13 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

oldish chris wrote:
vegplot wrote:
Change your search engine...

"(c) Skin Contact: Corrosive to the skin. Skin contact causes serious skin burns which may not be immediately apparent or painful. Symptoms may be delayed 8 hours or longer. The fluoride ion readily penetrates the skin causing destruction of deep tissue layers and even bone."
are you thinking of a concentrated aqueous solution of HF or a whiff of smoke that may contain several ppm?


See OP.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 13 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I'm sure I've read something similar before, I've always disliked the sound of hydrofluoric acid (don't you use it to etch number plate details onto the glass of a car? (or make Prozac?)).

Question is, do latex rubber gloves keep it off?

derbyshiredowser



Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 702
Location: derbyshire
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 13 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I use it to etch glass in gel form I use rubber chemical gloves, face mask and goggles and work outside pokey stuff.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8481

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 13 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

The main danger of hydrofluoric acid is during and after a vehicle fire. PTFE coating on cables is a major source.

As far as doing maintenance on vehicles is concerned, don't use heat near any plastic or rubber; apart from anything else you will damage it, and it could well give of a variety of toxic fumes.

No, latex gloves are not really enough. Heavy duty rubber gloves for working with chemicals are needed, and if you are using the liquid, it should be used under safety controlled conditions, not at home. Not come across the gel, but use strict safely precautions, and personally, I would be wary of using even that at home, but then I was a chemist with a lively sense of self preservation. Sorry, but it can attack bone, and is a nasty acid.

Barefoot Andrew
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 22777
Location: In the 17th century
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 13 9:26 am    Post subject: Re: Eeek. Dangers of car DIY Reply with quote    

vegplot wrote:
toasted Soreen in a Haynes manual.


You need to work on your sandwich recipes.
A.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 33600
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 13 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

HFl is used to dispose of bodies.

Just saying.

vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21297
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 13 11:33 am    Post subject: Re: Eeek. Dangers of car DIY Reply with quote    

Barefoot Andrew wrote:
vegplot wrote:
toasted Soreen in a Haynes manual.


You need to work on your sandwich recipes.
A.


A real man's recipe book.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 32618
Location: yes
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 13 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

nasty stuff ,i would not want to use it at home or in a lab.

when i worked at ici hf was treated as a specialist reagent and handled by the old folks same as hcn and flurine .they let me play with naps , 2000 psi h2/catalysts and various other moody or potentially very toxic reagents
sometimes in new conditions that have not been tried before it was interesting and occasionally rather too exiting when nitrating things , i still would not want to play with hf.

hf is useful to get the first 4 f into hex (f2 for the last pair )it wouldnt want to work at that either

Dee J



Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 334
Location: West Devon
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 13 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

HF... Much used in the semiconductor industry. First aid and security always equipped with a calcium rich cream to apply in case of accidental skin contact. AFAIK HF attacks the calcium in bone and by the time any symptoms are apparent much damage has already occurred.
Dee

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