Straw bales, which way up?

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Straw bales, which way up?
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Woodburner

Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 2904
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 13 10:13 pm Post subject: Straw bales, which way up?
I'd always assumed they were always laid flat, strings running under and over, but while trying to find out how to make bales shorter to stop joints lining up, someone mentioned putting them edge on to keep the thickness down a bit. Doesn't seem right somehow. Anyone tried them that way? And how do you make bales shorter/stop the joins lining up?

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 13 10:19 pm Post subject:
You can always have them baled to different lengths.

earthyvirgo

Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 7972
Location: creating prints in the loft, Gerlan

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 13 10:24 pm Post subject:
...or you can unstring, make them the size you want them and re-string using a baling needle. https://www.strawbale.com/retying-straw-bales/ EV

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 13 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: Straw bales, which way up?

Woodburner wrote:

I'd always assumed they were always laid flat, strings running under and over, but while trying to find out how to make bales shorter to stop joints lining up, someone mentioned putting them edge on to keep the thickness down a bit. Doesn't seem right somehow.

Anyone tried them that way?

And how do you make bales shorter/stop the joins lining up?

Cut the bales ,and re-tie at the required length
The bottom stack of any bales are better stacked on edge,to either stop the strings rotting or from vermin damage.

I would imagine anyone using bales to build a home ,would use the larger versions,if only for stability,thinking of the 2ft 9 x 2ft 9in versions.

Woodburner

Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 2904
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 13 11:18 pm Post subject: Re: Straw bales, which way up?

Rob R wrote:

You can always have them baled to different lengths.

Not round here you can't! Lucky to find any at all!

earthyvirgo wrote:

...or you can unstring, make them the size you want them and re-string using a baling needle.

https://www.strawbale.com/retying-straw-bales/

EV

That's more like it. Thanks.

I hope I can find something suitable to make a baling needle from.

Ty Gwyn wrote:

Most big builds I've seen have had either a wooden frame, metal connecting rods, or both.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 13 11:22 pm Post subject:

Bales are handled and laid wide side down. There is a fashion to use bales on edge in some house builds but are flawed IMHO. * Thinner walls means less insulation, poor render adhesion, less stable, greater difficulty in handling stacking, less easily to cut, and less load bearing.

Bales for homes are generally small bales not hestons which require specialist handling equipment.

* Research indicates the orientation of the straw compensates for reduced wall thickness.

Last edited by vegplot on Sun Aug 04, 13 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 13 11:50 pm Post subject: Re: Straw bales, which way up?

Woodburner wrote:

Rob R wrote:

You can always have them baled to different lengths.

Not round here you can't! Lucky to find any at all!

A lack of straw, in Essex?

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 13 11:54 pm Post subject:
What procedures are put in place to stop vermin from gaining access from below the bales,is the mesh that`s used for securing to the bales prior to plastering,also layed below the bales?

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 13 11:57 pm Post subject: Re: Straw bales, which way up?

Rob R wrote:

Woodburner wrote:

Rob R wrote:

You can always have them baled to different lengths.

Not round here you can't! Lucky to find any at all!

A lack of straw, in Essex?

A lot goes down the road to that Straw burning power station,and a lot is just chopped and ploughed in,

No wonder us in Wales pay a fortune for straw.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 13 8:20 am Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

What procedures are put in place to stop vermin from gaining access from below the bales,is the mesh that`s used for securing to the bales prior to plastering,also layed below the bales?

Never mesh between render and bales, you won't see it in UK house build. For a start there's no need and the mesh is likely to promote rot through condensation - the walls breath and therefore carry moisture. The render, footer and wall plates stop vermin entry.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 13 10:34 am Post subject:

Interesting,i would have thought the same principal would have been used as when clom/cob walls are plastered,in that they were wooden pegged to attach the mesh.

When you mention footer,what material are you talking about,as i did`nt think concrete was used,

And the wall plate,do you cover the whole top of the bale.

I ask these questions,as this winter ,i had rats in my porch,where i tend to keep a bag of dried dog food,firstly the buggers chewed through the bottom of my door frame, i cured that,by cutting an heavy galv turkey feeder,and tacking on the angles on the outside of the frame,that`s got um i thought.

A few days later i came in,in the night after feeding to find a rat in there again,it had chewed a hole through the concrete floor alongside the back wall to get at the dog food,admit the concrete was only 2ins thick,as the porch was built on the existing outside concrete area,to keep the rain off the back door,but this concrete was made from Limestone duff,and is like flint,hard going when trying to cut a hole through with a chisel.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 13 3:33 pm Post subject:

You want to keep metal mesh away from cob, straw, or any other natural building material. It's not required and shortens the life of a building.

As long as you're not keep dog food in your straw bales vermin actually pose very little of a problem. Straw contains very little food stuff and unless there are holes vermin will not use it as nesting material. Bottom and top plates of made of timber ladder construction, often clad in ply which adds strength and keeps out vermin.

The floor plate sits on whatever foundation you build, which should be free draining. Stone, tyres, timber, piles or whatever. You can use concrete if you want.

Woodburner

Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 2904
Location: Essex

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 13 4:02 pm Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

Woodburner wrote:

Rob R wrote:

You can always have them baled to different lengths.

Not round here you can't! Lucky to find any at all!

A lack of straw, in Essex?

Not so much a lack of straw, so much as small bales. The nearest place to me that I know of charges £2.50 a bale! A place about 20 miles away does them for half that but I need a silly inbetween number, too many for me to collect but not enough to be worth them delivering.

Ty Gwyn wrote:

What procedures are put in place to stop vermin from gaining access from below the bales,is the mesh that`s used for securing to the bales prior to plastering,also layed below the bales?

I've got a concrete base, so not an issue this time round thankfully.
I'll probably use a mix of pallets/pallet wood, plaster board and ply as a quicker option than render. Kind of glad I never found the time/energy to take the offcuts of plaster board in a shed to the tip after all now.

Ty Gwyn wrote:

A few days later i came in,in the night after feeding to find a rat in there again,it had chewed a hole through the concrete floor alongside the back wall to get at the dog food,admit the concrete was only 2ins thick,as the porch was built on the existing outside concrete area,to keep the rain off the back door,but this concrete was made from Limestone duff,and is like flint,hard going when trying to cut a hole through with a chisel.

Maybe not so safe after all!

Thanks for all the tips folks.

This time it's only for a shed, but if it works well, I might try a bigger build some time.

alison
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 12918
Location: North Devon

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 13 5:41 pm Post subject:
Why not have enough delivered, and sell the rest. Should be easy to sell, if they are hard to come by in your area.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 13 7:49 pm Post subject:

vegplot wrote:

Shortening the life of the building,maybe with straw which i know very little regarding its use for building,but i cannot see the use of wire mesh on cob shortens the buildings life,you`ll have to explain that one to me,as the house here is cob in the back upper half,and the back halves of the pine ends,i presume it was a single story in the back originally with the long slope on the roof,and its been plastered since the 60`s by the design,and is cork dry,also 2 walls in the back bedroom were dry lined,which i pulled off when i installed central heating,pegged and meshed before plastering,as parts had been patched years before,and the cement render had blown from the cob.

Some year`s you`d be surprised how much grain is left in wheat bales,the cattle show you when they shove the straw aside to lick out the mangers,and the chickens scratching amongst the bedding in the cattle sheds.

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