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happytechie



Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 401
Location: Surrey (at the mo.)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 09 7:18 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

Fee wrote:
I'm sure Happytechie would put his tuppence worth in from the perspective of safety whatnots, having been an RNLI lifeguard. I don't think his kind of boat ownership experience will be of much use in an article on here, seen as it was a very silly racing dinghy he owned


I wasn't a lifeguard darling

I could put something together if no body else volunteers but It's been a while since I set pots, nets, long lines or fished with a rod but I have done all of the above from a small (12' ish) leaky clinker built open boat with just a 30 year old seagull engine and a pair of oars.

The most frequent call out we had on the lifeboat by far was fishing boats that had run out of petrol. Take a spare tank everytime

Jonnyboy



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23924
Location: under some rain.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 09 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

happytechie wrote:


The most frequent call out we had on the lifeboat by far was fishing boats that had run out of petrol. Take a spare tank everytime


The last two people I towed back into harbour had done the very same thing, and didn't even have oars.

I'd say that having alternative propulsion is as important as having spare fuel.

Oh, and it's always speedboats that run out of fuel.

Ronnie



Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Highlands
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 09 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Traditional clinker built boats are great if you use them all the time. But if laid up for months on end they will develop problems really quite quickly as the timbers dry out and contract. This is a much bigger problem than rot. They need care lavished upon them and coat after coat of varnish.

GRP are cheap, ugly, hardy and heavy.

RIBS tend to be pretty light weight. You can deflate the tubes for storage or sticking it on top of a van. Fishing with sharp hooks out of a RIB could cause you problems. They also tend to be built for high power outboards = high speed = massive fuel consumption.

Plywood boats are better than they sound. You can also build them yourself which may or may not be lots of fun depending on your aptitude with hand tools.

My personal favourite is aluminium (although I admit to never having owned one). Tough as old boots. Maintenance free. Light and utilitarian.

My advise would be to always go for an open boat for anything under 20ft. They are much more versatile and honest. Vikings and polynesians crossed oceans in open boats, so you really don't need cover if you're pootling around in estuaries and lochs if you're dressed right. Superstructures catch the wind, and people get trapped inside them when boats capsize. They also get in the way when coming into the beach or mooring up and they look silly on a wee boat.

Propulsion:
Outboards are versatile for small boats. You can demount quickly and easily make the boat lighter to handle. You eliminate all sorts of issues with stern tubes and rudders at a stroke with an outboard. For a sail boat you can tip the motor up out of the water and reduce drag. Beware of old outboards bought with the intention of "fixing up". They're mostly made out of aluminium and all the bolts seize. They are also surprisingly complex with rubber shocks throughout which perish. This is disposable technology and should be respected as such. 4 stroke outboards give better economy (obviously) but come at a premium. Diesel outboards are now available but represent a significant investment.

Inboards are heavier duty than outboards with greater longevity and easier to repair. However, you know have to worry about stern tubes - where the prop shaft passes through the hull. These can leak and sink your boat. You also now need a rudder. At it's simplest you have the rudder connected to a tiller. But if you want forward control you now need steering gear - ropes, cables, teleflex or hydraulic. Hydraulic is best but cost lots of money. Cables have left me dead in the water and teleflex is just nasty. Many sailboats get by quite nicely with rope and nylon pulleys - it's a nice lightfooted design. Inboards are heavy and give you a boat than needs moored rather than dragged up the beach. I wouldn't have an inboard in a boat of less tha 20 feet. Outdrives are another option for performance inboards. This is a type of sterndrive similar to an outboard but powered by an inboard. You do get petrol inboards but they tend to be frowned on. Petrol sets boats on fire in a rather spectacular manner, it's much more expensive than red diesel, and it relies on electrics which screw up on the sea quite easily. The vast majority of inboards are diesel.

Sail is the ultimate downsizer option. I grew up with powered boats, so don't actually know that much about them. But my next boat will have primary sail power with auxiliary outboard.

Choice of boat is going to be dictated to a large degree by where you're going to keep it. If you have a marina with nice pontoons in a sheltered basin then you can have anything you want. If you're working off a stony tidal shore you need a boat light enough to drag up and down the beach. If you remove and carry the outboard up you can then drag the boat up on rollers (think round fence posts). This is much easier with a couple of people. If you have a 4x4 and a trailer you can reverse the trailer into the sea, float the boat on (mostly) winch it on the rest of the way and then drive it home. Moorings are best left for larger vessels. A moored boat will sink on average every 10 years for a whole multitude of reasons. Personally I would never choose a boat which I couldn't beach. This means a relatively robust hull and some decent keel straps. It also rules out fin keels for sail boats - think centreboard/lifting keel, or bilge keel.

More important than any of these considerations is that the best boat you can get is the boat you can get your mits on cheap or for free.

My family are hassling me to do stuff so I need to finish now

crofter



Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 2252

PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 09 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Ronnie wrote:

My personal favourite is aluminium (although I admit to never having owned one). Tough as old boots. Maintenance free. Light and utilitarian.



I have owned a couple of ally boats. One was a ww2 landing craft held together with pop rivets. Tough and zero maintanence - yes, but not "light"... No. Ebbed up on a beach is the last place you want to be with an aluminium boat!

Ronnie



Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Highlands
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 09 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I think construction techniques have come on some since then. Last week I manhandled a modern 24' ally boat off the beach with with one hand.

GaiJin



Joined: 06 Feb 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Yorkshire
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 14 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Hi,

I used to run a 21 ft RIB. Most of our coastal boating experience was in the north sea - Whitby down to Hull area. Flamborough Head can be quite interesting when the wind gets up or the fog rolls in!

If anyone is thinking about coastal fishing/setting pots here are a few things (in my humble opinion) I would recommend:

1. Take the RYA powerboat 1 & 2 courses. This will give you a basic knowledge of boat handling - think of it as driving lessons & don't consider yourself 'fit for anything' just because you pass the test - it is a very basic starter.

2. Take the RYA Marine VHF course & get yourself licensed. There is a correct way of communicating at sea - especially in an emergency when time is of the essence.

3. Register with the coastguard - there is a scheme to let them know your VHF call-sign & emergency beacon, boat details, hull colour, safety equipment, etc to give them a heads up in finding/helping you in an emergency.

4. There is no substitute for local knowledge - speak to the coastguard, speak to RNLI, speak to local fishermen (try & get a ride out with one if you can) - they can teach you a lot more about the local conditions & hazards than you will learn from books & staring at instruments.

5. Prepare your boat - I had a lot of redundancy built in - fixed VHF, handheld backup VHF, Fixed GPS, handheld backup GPS, Fixed compass, handheld backup compass, depth-sounder/fishfinder, local paper charts, good set of binoculars, mobile phone, coastal flare kit, throw line for man overboard, good quality lifejackets, all weather gear, main outboard engine and 'wing engine' for limping home if the main failed, nav lights, torches, etc - but I was obsessive about safety when taking friends & family out who were not familiar with boating - hehe.

4. Look at what's in the harbour - my RIB would have been useless for setting pots without a lot of additional tube protection for when hauling up pots. What sort of boating/fishing are you going to do & what are others in a similar line of work using - there is usually a good reason.

5. Don't poach turf from local fishermen.

I hope that helps a bit. My experience is leisure based - i'm no fisherman but I do know my way around small craft in coastal waters, rivers, canals, lochs & lakes.

GJ

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 32459
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 14 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

very interesting thread

i had considered doing the course when i get the time/cash even though i have no current intent to get a boat at the mo (but might in future)

for what it is worth from my limited experience a 20ft open with a tarp to cover gear etc and oars when the motor packed in is survivable in a sudden force 8 in the bristol channel between flatholm and penarth.not fun but im alive and the most comfortable small boat in a biggish swell was an orkney off barra.both were being run by experts.
ribs are horrid for owt but fun on flattish water.

when i considered a boat a few years back i looked at a nelson(nice but 8oo hp for 4 berths is a bit excessive) and the fuel costs were ridiculous and a 60' wooden trawler that needed so much work i could have got a new smaller thing for far less.

GaiJin



Joined: 06 Feb 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Yorkshire
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 14 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I had oars on my RIB. A boat that size and weight with a few passengers on board couldn't be rowed back to shore. They were only ever useful to hold the boat into the wind to stop it rolling in the swell - and I did that with the engine most of the time.

I agree about fuel prices - 140 ltr tank plus a couple of 20 ltr jerry cans for backup (most of which you would use on a decent run out) made trips very expensive.

An economical inboard slow revving diesel would probably be the way to go otherwise you might as well go and buy a lobster at the local fishmonger - it would be cheaper - apart from the fun of being out on the sea of course.

GJ

Cathryn



Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19829
Location: Ceredigion
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 14 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Did you know that every word in the shipping forecast has a specific meaning, so, for example, the word "imminent" means within the next six hours.

This information is bought to you via Judith who collects boats in her inshore garden.

GaiJin



Joined: 06 Feb 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Yorkshire
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 14 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

We always used to ring the local coastguard before we left to get the latest forecast from them.

Also let the coastguard and boat launch guys know where we were headed and ETA back at my trailer on the beach.

Drewsephine



Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 1146
Location: noun 1 a particular place or position: the property is set in a convenient location an actual place
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 14 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: boat stuff Reply with quote    

altimages wrote:

- Wearlife Jackets


I will fully concur.

The last thing the RNLI want to do is drag your stupid dead bottom (substitute word of your choice) out of the water because you couldn't be bothered to wear one. They're not heavy or cumbersome any more and save lives more than anything else.

My RNLI cox'n friend has never pulled anyone out of the water dead who was wearing a life jacket. He's pulled more than a few out that weren't. Its not a pretty sight and really ruins not just your morning, but the poor bloke thats gotta drag you out.

Cant stress this enough.


WEAR A LIFE JACKET

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 32459
Location: yes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 14 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

good advice and welcome back from wherever

Flamin'Panda



Joined: 09 Feb 2014
Posts: 464
Location: Azores
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 14 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

RichardW wrote:
sean wrote:
Well write your experiences up for us. Then we can all learn from them.


They arnt realy boaty yet more DIY. Its been all scraping, sanding & painting. Oh & fibreglassing, laying a wooden floor (been told thats base boards in boat speak), fitting new windows.


Justme


Sole boards - not base boards.... if you're going to talk about something at least know what you're talking about....

Flamin'Panda



Joined: 09 Feb 2014
Posts: 464
Location: Azores
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 14 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

GaiJin wrote:
Hi,

I used to run a 21 ft RIB. Most of our coastal boating experience was in the north sea - Whitby down to Hull area. Flamborough Head can be quite interesting when the wind gets up or the fog rolls in!

If anyone is thinking about coastal fishing/setting pots here are a few things (in my humble opinion) I would recommend:

1. Take the RYA powerboat 1 & 2 courses. This will give you a basic knowledge of boat handling - think of it as driving lessons & don't consider yourself 'fit for anything' just because you pass the test - it is a very basic starter.

2. Take the RYA Marine VHF course & get yourself licensed. There is a correct way of communicating at sea - especially in an emergency when time is of the essence.

3. Register with the coastguard - there is a scheme to let them know your VHF call-sign & emergency beacon, boat details, hull colour, safety equipment, etc to give them a heads up in finding/helping you in an emergency.

4. There is no substitute for local knowledge - speak to the coastguard, speak to RNLI, speak to local fishermen (try & get a ride out with one if you can) - they can teach you a lot more about the local conditions & hazards than you will learn from books & staring at instruments.

5. Prepare your boat - I had a lot of redundancy built in - fixed VHF, handheld backup VHF, Fixed GPS, handheld backup GPS, Fixed compass, handheld backup compass, depth-sounder/fishfinder, local paper charts, good set of binoculars, mobile phone, coastal flare kit, throw line for man overboard, good quality lifejackets, all weather gear, main outboard engine and 'wing engine' for limping home if the main failed, nav lights, torches, etc - but I was obsessive about safety when taking friends & family out who were not familiar with boating - hehe.

4. Look at what's in the harbour - my RIB would have been useless for setting pots without a lot of additional tube protection for when hauling up pots. What sort of boating/fishing are you going to do & what are others in a similar line of work using - there is usually a good reason.

5. Don't poach turf from local fishermen.

I hope that helps a bit. My experience is leisure based - i'm no fisherman but I do know my way around small craft in coastal waters, rivers, canals, lochs & lakes.

GJ


The RYA is your first stop. Talk to them, they don't bite. They should be able to tell you where your nearest class is (a lot of night classes out there). http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/Pages/default.aspx

Talk to other boat owners (just remember that we are passionate about our own boats, and do tend to go on a bit!). Whether its a dingy, a power boat, fishing or sail, the boating community is very welcoming. An extra pair of hands when anti-fouling is always welcome - you will learn a lot by just helping, listening and watching. Armchair sailors are the worst - they simply don't know - talk to the guys who go out.

Normally there is a reason why a boat is so 'cheap', or even free. But before buying anything, learn what you are doing, go out with other fishermen. Become a boating nerd, this will save you a lot of time, money and hassle in the future, more importantly it could save your life and those of others.

In the UK you have the RNLI. If you can, talk to them, they know the areas they cover.

We have been in a couple of situations where we have rescued others. Had they had just one brain cell between them, these situations would not have occurred.

Please don't become a zero to hero. The quoted post above has a lot of good information. Sea survival courses are also very good - you never know. It may seem like a never ending list of learning and grafting, but as with anything, start at the beginning and work your way up.

Just remember, there are only two good days in a boat owners life, the day you buy it and then the day you sell it!

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