|
|
 |
Author |
|
| Message | |
|
Jam and Pickles
Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 11
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 30, 09 7:22 pm Post subject: |
 
|
Answers to questions:
I view the start up as a progressive process, starting small and making mistakes on a small scale.
The land will be used for chicken keeping initially, hoping to move to keeping pigs and veal (not breeding).
Fishing, hunting are not part of the plan but opportunities will be taken as they come up.
Not growing grain but growing firewood.
I intend to have the finances for a polytunnel and general equipment (factored into overall budget).
We've already decided to take a course in small holding's, this is certainly part of our build-up process.
I can appreciate it's an open question, but I'm trying to get an idea of how much money's involved from the onset, it's difficult!
Thjanks v much for responses so far! |
|
|
|
 |
Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 19561
Location: In the pond with the frogs
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 09 8:26 pm Post subject: |
|
I agree it will greatly vary but as a very rough idea I'd be looking at 20 acres rather than just 7. I'd want about 10 acres for firewood but also remember that can provide a fair bit of food and can be used to keep chickens, bees etc in. I think France has a land tax which might cause problems if you buy too much at once. |
|
|
|
|
boisdevie1
Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 2270
Location: Northern France
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 09 8:30 pm Post subject: |
|
The idea of selling at local markets sounds wonderful - but aren't people already selling into local markets? You might end up selling very little.
Do you speak French? If not learn - QUICK.
If you have lots of land then you can probably grow most of what you need. But then you'll need cash for all the other stuff. You can't pay your electricity/phone/council tax with onions.
But I like your idea - but PLAN, PLAN, PLAN. And don't count on finding work in France so easily - it's not.
Bonne chance.
Why the Dordogne? Surely there are far cheaper parts of France - such as the Creuse. |
|
|
|
|
crofter
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 952
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 09 9:48 pm Post subject: |
|
Once you have got some land, you will never have enough. "I don't want all the land in the world, just that which borders my own" |
|
|
|
|
judith
Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 17751
Location: Montgomeryshire
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 09 9:58 pm Post subject: |
|
Are you perhaps approaching this from the wrong angle?
How much money do you need to live? Excluding your set-up costs, which will be three times what you estimate them to be, how much will you need to make each year?
Running a car, taxes, insurance, new clothes, holidays back home, self-employed contributions, ongoing costs. Be honest and realistic about these. What standard of living do you really want? What standard of living is your family prepared to accept. Don't be at all romantic about this - poverty isn't fun, even in a beautiful setting. (And, as BdV says, unless your OH is French, don't assume that she will find a job in a rural area. There are precious few for the local people.)
Once you know how much you need to make each year, it will be easier to formulate a plan of how much land / what to grow on it / what animals to keep, etc. |
|
|
|
|
Bebo
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 6014
Location: East Sussex
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 09 9:00 am Post subject: |
|
| Treacodactyl wrote: |
| I'd want about 10 acres for firewood but also remember that can provide a fair bit of food and can be used to keep chickens, bees etc in. |
And if its fenced properly, pigs as well. Pigs love woodland, particularly if it has trees in it that things they like to eat drop off of (oak and beech for example). |
|
|
|
|
Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 19561
Location: In the pond with the frogs
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 09 9:06 am Post subject: |
|
| Bebo wrote: |
| Treacodactyl wrote: |
| I'd want about 10 acres for firewood but also remember that can provide a fair bit of food and can be used to keep chickens, bees etc in. |
And if its fenced properly, pigs as well. Pigs love woodland, particularly if it has trees in it that things they like to eat drop off of (oak and beech for example). |
Pigs are covered by the etc bit  although I expect you need to be careful they don't do too much damage. |
|
|
|
|
Jam and Pickles
Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 11
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 09 9:09 am Post subject: |
|
It's starting to look like 7 acres is very limiting in options, which is what I suspected. |
|
|
|
|
Nat S
Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 3563
Location: York
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 09 10:27 am Post subject: |
|
This is seriously not something you can do sums on.
You could have a million acres on good land with warm sun during the day and plenty of rain at night, no local competition and a local populace dying to buy your meat veg whatever...and still muck it up.
If anybody says 'oh you need X many acres' as a definitive answer...they're round the twist. |
|
|
|
|
Blue Peter
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2171
Location: Milton Keynes
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 09 10:45 am Post subject: |
|
| Ixy wrote: |
This is seriously not something you can do sums on.
|
Though, there are some standard amounts of land for standard "tasks" are there not? e.g. I think that space and water heating (and cooking?) in a well-insulated house requires something like 1- 2 ha of coppiced woodland; for a totally grass fed cow and calf (including over-wintering hay) you need about 4 acres(?) and so on,
Peter. |
|
|
|
|
RichardW
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 5703
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 09 11:01 am Post subject: |
|
Or keep the cow/calf in the barn & buy all the feed / forage in?
You could do 1,000's of pigs on 1 acre if they are inside. |
|
|
|
|
Blue Peter
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2171
Location: Milton Keynes
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 09 11:23 am Post subject: |
|
| RichardW wrote: |
Or keep the cow/calf in the barn & buy all the feed / forage in?
You could do 1,000's of pigs on 1 acre if they are inside. |
Obviously, but there are some numbers out there which can give you a guide, and which presumably be helpful to the OP-er,
Peter. |
|
|
|
|
RGT
Joined: 26 May 2009
Posts: 5
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 09 11:28 am Post subject: |
|
An acre of stony sheepwalk or Spruce plantation isn't the same as an acre of prime black garden soil, obviously, as reflected in the relative prices. But you want as much land as your budget will support, trading off against other variables if neccessary - eg a nice modernised farmhouse is good, but tarting up buildings is relatively easy.
The enormous ethical problems of indoor pigs aside, it's a pretty capital intensive approach if done anything like properly. |
|
|
|
|
RichardW
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 5703
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 09 11:46 am Post subject: |
|
Oh yeh intensive will eat up the capital but should produce the profits as well.
As has been said you need to start at the end & work back.
Once you know how much you need to make then you can work out how to make it. Or you will be making lots of plans only top find that you are short of your needed funds.
You also need to decided in intensive, extensive or a mix.
The biggest factor is making sure you can sell what you need to at the price you need. To many fail to market properly so even if you get all the rest right you still fail. |
|
|
|
|
Millymollymandy
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 157
Location: Brittany, France
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 09 6:35 am Post subject: |
|
You need to take into account the lack of rain in many parts of France during the summer so you'd probably need more land for whatever you want to do than you would in a rainy part of the UK. I was told by a horsey person that the rule of thumb for horses (per horse) is one acre in the UK but one hectare (about 2.5 acres) in France. Yes I know you didn't mention horses but I can't quote anything about other grazing animals. Obviously chooks won't need any more space. 
Good luck anyway, or rather bonne chance! |
|
|
|
|
|
View Latest Posts