|
|
 |
Author |
|
| Message | |
|
bagpuss
Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 7070
Location: cambridge
|
 Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 10:20 am Post subject: Cars are greener than buses |
 
|
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ethicalman/2009/11/why_cars_are_greener_than_buses.html
An interesting article from Newsnights Ethical man
He is right that a full car is greener than most buses as other than at peak times most buses are very empty
He is also right that we should use public transport when we can as it is running and dumping out carbon whether we use it or not so its better not to add to that additional carbon from cars if possible
A thought provoking opinion piece though |
|
|
|
 |
colour it green
Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 2959
Location: Devon, uk
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 11:20 am Post subject: |
|
i think it is unfair that he compares a full car to a virtually empty bus. in reality, most cars only have one - two at best occupants.
I'm teaching my son to use buses at the mo, and we regularly take off peak buses, and live in a rural area. The bus is never full, but never has less that 12 people on board - usually more.
I don't have a lot of time for EM... gimmicky |
|
|
|
|
bagpuss
Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 7070
Location: cambridge
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 11:25 am Post subject: |
|
| colour it green wrote: |
i think it is unfair that he compares a full car to a virtually empty bus. in reality, most cars only have one - two at best occupants.
I'm teaching my son to use buses at the mo, and we regularly take off peak buses, and live in a rural area. The bus is never full, but never has less that 12 people on board - usually more.
I don't have a lot of time for EM... gimmicky |
Certainly the fact that his comparision uses US figures where buses are likely to be more underused than other areas
I think in rural areas where there is less available public transport usage will probably be higher
In most circumstances it is better environmentally to use public transport than private but it is worth remembering that cars aren't always worse |
|
|
|
|
colour it green
Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 2959
Location: Devon, uk
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 11:27 am Post subject: |
|
doesn't take into account the manufacture of the vehicles either |
|
|
|
|
bagpuss
Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 7070
Location: cambridge
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 11:29 am Post subject: |
|
| colour it green wrote: |
| doesn't take into account the manufacture of the vehicles either |
Very few of these things take into account manufacture which is why hybrids are still considered green |
|
|
|
|
mochyn
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 13973
Location: mid-Wales
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 11:38 am Post subject: |
|
My problem is that I have to dive 7.5 miles to the nearest bus stop (17 to the nearest railway station) and then the buses don't run at times when I'd need them.
Unless I want to go to welshpool, when I can drive 2.5 miles to get a bus.
On a Monday morning.
Thus I use the car as little as poss: most weeks just once for shopping (15 miles round trip) and every other week 10 miles round trip for feed. That's the Landrover though. |
|
|
|
|
baldybloke
Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 344
Location: Wiltshire
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 11:43 am Post subject: |
|
The way I see it most of the climate damage is caused by manufacturing the materials and the production of vehicles. That and their disposal. Then it comes down to how much a vehicle is used. I try and assess if the journey is necessary, then choose how I am going to make that journey. For instance, I usually walk into town to do my shopping on a Saturday, only using the car if I have carry bulky or heavy items. I also try to combine car journeys, for example taking rubbish to the recycling centre, then stopping in town on the way back. If I need to go to the local city, for instance Bath, I would take the bus. Other journeys I usually prefer to take the bike. I average milage is around 5,000 miles these days and I have a make do and mend approach to my vehicles, prefering basic models that I can fix myself. |
|
|
|
|
Nat S
Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 3635
Location: York
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 11:43 am Post subject: |
|
I think they should just make cars smaller and greener (manufacture too). Then it would be appropriate for just one or two people to use them only when needed. If they were diddy less motorway space would be used up and parking would be easier too. Kind of like a car/motorbike hybrid. I love my little car and would hate to go back to PT. |
|
|
|
|
baldybloke
Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 344
Location: Wiltshire
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 11:48 am Post subject: |
|
I agree with Ixy and that we should all be driving around in a more efficient version of the 2CV. A car with bolt on panels that is infinitely rebuildable. |
|
|
|
|
Nat S
Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 3635
Location: York
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 11:49 am Post subject: |
|
| baldybloke wrote: |
| I agree with Ixy and that we should all be driving around in a more efficient version of the 2CV. A car with bolt on panels that is infinitely rebuildable. |
oo yes that'd be great, like giant mechano! |
|
|
|
|
Bebo
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 6086
Location: East Sussex
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 11:51 am Post subject: |
|
| bagpuss wrote: |
I think in rural areas where there is less available public transport usage will probably be higher
|
Doesn't wprk like that. In rural areas buses are generally low frequency, operate over a relatively short day, serve limited destinations and offer few opportunities for interchange with other public transport (rail or other buses) and tend to serve much less dense catchment (i.e. fewer potential customers). As a result they are less convenient for people and less likely to be used. Occupancy is generally lower.
Conversely in urban areas buses tend to have much higher frequencies, serve a much greater catchment (more potential customers) and be part of a much denser public transport network. As a result they actually offer a viable alternative to car use and patronage is much higher.
In London for example, TfL try to ensure that most services have a bus arriving every 12 minutes (or more frequently in a lot of cases). This level of service is sufficient for people not to even have to worry about timetables and they can just turn up and go.
Other factors like availability and cost of car parking at either end of your trip also have a bearing on mode choice, as does being worried about getting the nutter on the bus sitting next to you. |
|
|
|
|
mochyn
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 13973
Location: mid-Wales
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 11:54 am Post subject: |
|
Absolutely Bebo. When I lived in London, Bath, Birmingham and Shrewsbury (not all at once) I used PT for everything. |
|
|
|
|
Bebo
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 6086
Location: East Sussex
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 11:56 am Post subject: |
|
| Ixy wrote: |
| I think they should just make cars smaller and greener (manufacture too). Then it would be appropriate for just one or two people to use them only when needed. If they were diddy less motorway space would be used up and parking would be easier too. Kind of like a car/motorbike hybrid. I love my little car and would hate to go back to PT. |
Reducing the length of car wouldn't significantly affect motorway capacity. Most of the space is taken up by the headway between cars when travelling at speed, rather than the actual space the vehicle occupies.
The only way changing the size of cars would be to reduce the width substantially so that more lanes could be accommodated. However, you'd have to do that with all cars not just some of them before you could remark the lane widths.
Transport nerds hat now removed for the remainder of the day. |
|
|
|
|
bagpuss
Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 7070
Location: cambridge
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 12:00 pm Post subject: |
|
The occupancy figures seem a little out of date but the source seems relatively reliable
Bus Carbon impact
This suggests average occupancy is only 9 which isn't very many really |
|
|
|
|
Nick
Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 17559
Location: Hereford
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 12:01 pm Post subject: |
|
Or 10, if you count the paranoid schizophrenic that seems to be on every bus. |
|
|
|
|
|
View Latest Posts