Young apple trees - & Ongoing updates (inc grafting)

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Young apple trees - & Ongoing updates (inc grafting)
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Lorrainelovesplants

Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 6521
Location: Dordogne

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 12 4:32 pm Post subject:
How about an update Sally? Its been a while?

Marches

Joined: 13 Dec 2011
Posts: 171
Location: Nr Peak District, England

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 12 8:40 pm Post subject:

Cool, I wish I had your patience. When you develop a good variety don't forget to name it "..... seedling" and to send a branch to Brogdale to get on the register.

I'd love to have lots of seedling apple trees growing, it'd be really great developing a new variety or just a apple unique to that garden and found nowhere else.
At the moment I'm growing a cherry, pear and apple tree which I purchased bare-rooted. The cherry has been in a year and was a maiden when I bought it, the apple and pear are both maidens and went in this year.
The varieties are "Elstar" (an apple featuring Cox's, Golden Del. and a Danish heirloom variety), "Conference" (the common-as-muck English pear variety) and Morello Cherry.

Growing fruit trees from seed is maybe something I'll do in the future though. Good luck on getting your tasty new varieties.

Sally Too

Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 2511
Location: N.Ireland

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 12 7:34 am Post subject:

Lorrainelovesplants wrote:

How about an update Sally? Its been a while?

Sorry I missed this earlier - was in hosp for an op that day so I'll forgive myself this time!

Anyway back to the tree project. They didn't get attention as early as planned last year. Usual story of good intentions being better than the reality.

Most of them got planted out into an apple "hedge" around Sept '11 time. This is a newly constructed bank that flanks an area that has been prepared for the erection of a "new-to-us" barn. The trees are in a double row about 18' apart either way. I'm thinking I'll cull the less healthy ones in a year or two. As they grow they'll soften the outline of the barn and make it less visible.

The stronger ones I planted around June/July '11 to make an Apple Arch Walk along the top of the garden. (I hope it works - I saw one at another garden when it was in full bloom and it was so pretty... ) The two lines of trees are about 6' apart on either side of the walk and about 4' apart in line. I think there are around 14 trees used in this. The arch curves round and the walk area also has some hawthorn hedge to one side, so one line has more apple trees than the other. (I say "trees" loosely here - as they are in fact still only little sticks really... )

Four or five of the best (strongest & healthiest) trees were planted down the side of some stone steps that we built in the summer. These run on from the apple arch and down into the main garden area. The one unusual seedling that grew with red bark has been given the prestigious place at the bottom of these steps and visible from the kitchen window. So I hope it lives up the the potential beauty I have marked out as....

I have also been on an apple grafting course recently as I want to attempt to graft both bought trees I like, and some of these little wildlings. I bought some M27 rootstocks at the end of 2010 and grew them on. I tried to graft a couple last spring, but didn't really know what I was doing so they didn't work.

I hope to do more with them this year...

On the grafting course we did two of our own grafts to bring home. I have a Sunset and a Red booksop (can't remember spelling just now) grafted onto M106. The sunset seems to be producing buds - not sure of the other. I also bought some rootstocks, so I hope to use them to create more rootstock (technique with layering the soil up etc.) I've done a couple of Bramley grafts onto bought rootstock too.... just for practice.

So all good fun. I'll try and take some pictures in the next few days.

Sally Too

Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 2511
Location: N.Ireland

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 12 7:37 am Post subject:

Marches wrote:

Cool, I wish I had your patience. When you develop a good variety don't forget to name it "..... seedling" and to send a branch to Brogdale to get on the register.

Thanks for bumping this thread again, I'd missed Lorraine's request for more info. Also thanks for your enthusiasm... it really is probably a futile mission, but I think it's rather a fun idea. And as you say it's nice to end up with something to call your own unique plant.

I'm holding out great hopes for the red stemmed one... it is getting "special" treatment.

Marches

Joined: 13 Dec 2011
Posts: 171
Location: Nr Peak District, England

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 12 8:07 am Post subject:

Sally too wrote:

Marches wrote:

Cool, I wish I had your patience. When you develop a good variety don't forget to name it "..... seedling" and to send a branch to Brogdale to get on the register.

With apples being so divergent from their parents I do wonder how hardy strains appear. I suppose it could often be by chance alone sometimes, maybe the weather restricts less well-adapted types.
It's quite a survival strategy really, being rapidly evolving to colonise new habitats and resist pests. If only Vitis vinifera had that adaptability...
I do wonder if European Crab Apples are that adaptable, if they could ever be bred for edible fruit instead of just ornamental looks one day. I think they'd perhaps thrive in some tougher environments where cultivated apples don't.

Does anyone know if Crab and Cultivated apples hybridise by the way? I know having a Crab Apple tree nearby can help pollinate cultivated apples (but giving them barren seed), but do any viable crosses occur when a cultivated apple pollinates a crab apple?

Sally Too

Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 2511
Location: N.Ireland

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 12 8:17 am Post subject:

I understand that one of the reasons that apples are so genetically diverse is because the mountainous regions in Kazakhstan etc where they originated was very diverse. Valleys, ridges, areas with different aspects and soils etc. So the the evolutionary process never selected for only one consistent environment. Basically each generation was unlikely to land in the same environment as its parents.

So over time genetic diversity was pretty much an advantage, because that way some seeds from each tree would survive where-ever they landed.

So out of my 80 or so treelets (probably fewer now) there should be a few that find my little patch perfect for their genetic make up... hopefully they also taste delicious!

Of course I'm told that quite a high percentage of the wild trees in K do taste good - because bears (who shaped their evolution favourably) tend to like the same sorts of sweet apple flavours that we humans do!

At least that's my hope

Sally Too

Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 2511
Location: N.Ireland

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 12 8:21 am Post subject:
Sorry I know nowt about crab apples. We have one in the garden that flowers a beautiful deep red flower and some years produces an abundance of little red apples that make stunning apple jelly, but are a divil to pick..... thankfully we have a daughter who loves climbing trees.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 12 8:23 am Post subject:

Sally too wrote:

Marches wrote:

Cool, I wish I had your patience. When you develop a good variety don't forget to name it "..... seedling" and to send a branch to Brogdale to get on the register.

Re grafting, have you tried using grafting shears?
There was a tread here a couple of years ago, probably by yumsetter or OP & they look a lot easier to use than trying to cut the perfect graft with a knife.

Sally Too

Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 2511
Location: N.Ireland

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 12 8:29 am Post subject:
Those look interesting, but the pictures and the "manual" don't give much information about how they work. Do they cut the notch as well? Or just two flush surfaces of the same angle?

Sally Too

Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 2511
Location: N.Ireland

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 12 8:52 am Post subject:
Found some pictures here: https://www.grafting-tool.com/magento/index.php/features/ I think this is the same tool. If so then the one you linked to looks good value and may well be worth the investment. Thanks....

Sally Too

Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 2511
Location: N.Ireland

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 12 9:07 am Post subject:
So I thought I'd order a pair of these grafting shears? from T's link .... but they charge £14.99 postage to N.Ireland! Have emailed them about this. Can't see that that can be right.

Sally Too

Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 2511
Location: N.Ireland

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 12 10:39 am Post subject:
So apparently they post from Germany and £14.99 is the correct cost to N.Ireland! Anyway I found these on ebay: Another grafting tool and the postage was a bit cheaper and the item itself is described better and is cheaper and I've ordered one....

Sally Too

Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 2511
Location: N.Ireland

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 12 8:28 am Post subject:
Couple of pictures as promised. Early days for the "apple arch" !! (Tree in middle of each bit of mulch!) The steps with the red tree at the bottom. Detail of the red tree... sooo promising! Last edited by Sally Too on Sat Mar 31, 12 1:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

yummersetter

Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 3241
Location: Somerset

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 12 10:22 am Post subject:

How exciting - so much unique potential. Bet you can't wait for the first apple! That looks the size of the Pixirosso red tree when I planted it from T&M two years ago that's covered in blossom buds today

I've got the grafting shears but the rootstocks have been barked by mice over winter so I've got scionwood in the fridge whilst I see if they're alive.We've had fun cutting twigs and fitting them together as practice

Sally Too

Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 2511
Location: N.Ireland

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 12 8:23 am Post subject:
Unfortunately the saplings didn't get the best start last year.... which means none of the 1 year old wood is very thick... which makes grafting more difficult as the rootstocks are thick branches in comparison. Guess I could always try buds in Aug.... Anyway everything is in the ground now an so has a better chance of living. I just need to keep the grass at bay.

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