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The rich should pay more tax
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bagpuss



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 10268
Location: cambridge
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 11 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Shane wrote:
Nice of him to make the suggestion, it's got to be said. I presume he's not in favour of the idea being backdated, though.


I suspect given his writing he probably would be but he is one of those people who is going to give 90% of his wealth to philanthropic groups to do good with

This from an american ecomonic research group is a good indicator of why the richest 1% can afford to pay more tax

http://www.epi.org/economic_snapshots/entry/highest-income_households_can_afford_to_pay_more_in_taxes/

as currently after tax they take home 17% of the total US income which is 3% more than the middle 20%

I would love to know what that number is for the UK

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28984
Location: York
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 11 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Bebo wrote:
So do I. But I have considerably less influence.


I read that as 'considerably less affluence'.

T.G



Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Posts: 7280
Location: Somewhere you're not
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 11 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

The rich should pay more tax - YES ... they darn well should

Shane



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 2800
Location: Doha. Is hot.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 11 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

...within reason, I'd suggest

Bebo



Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 12395
Location: East Sussex
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 11 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Rob R wrote:
Bebo wrote:
So do I. But I have considerably less influence.


I read that as 'considerably less affluence'.


That too.

T.G



Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Posts: 7280
Location: Somewhere you're not
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 11 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Shane wrote:
...within reason, I'd suggest
.. Well of course... and the money raised shouldn't be squandered on bl00dy rubbish (I don't mean bin collection )

Green Man



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5272
Location: Rural Scotland.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 11 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

There should be no Tax Breaks for the rich, however to keep it fair, tax should be set at the same level for everybody once you get over the minimum thresh-hold or how else could it be called fair? People who earn more, will pay more. Its the sportsmen that opt out of paying income tax by setting themselves up as a company who should be 'Boo-ed off the pitch' Why do working class people worship them?

bagpuss



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 10268
Location: cambridge
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 11 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Green Man wrote:
There should be no Tax Breaks for the rich, however to keep it fair, tax should be set at the same level for everybody once you get over the minimum thresh-hold or how else could it be called fair? People who earn more, will pay more. Its the sportsmen that opt out of paying income tax by setting themselves up as a company who should be 'Boo-ed off the pitch' Why do working class people worship them?


Nah, those with more should pay proportionally more tax, they still are left with more money than the rest of us

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 24473
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 11 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

bagpuss wrote:
Green Man wrote:
There should be no Tax Breaks for the rich, however to keep it fair, tax should be set at the same level for everybody once you get over the minimum thresh-hold or how else could it be called fair? People who earn more, will pay more. Its the sportsmen that opt out of paying income tax by setting themselves up as a company who should be 'Boo-ed off the pitch' Why do working class people worship them?


Nah, those with more should pay proportionally more tax, they still are left with more money than the rest of us


And they may work far harder and make far more sacrifices.

What people seem to mean when they say the rich should pay more is they want other people to pay for their own lifestyle.

I wouldn't say the current system is that fair but most changes that tend to get suggested seem to make the system even worse.

bagpuss



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 10268
Location: cambridge
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 11 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Treacodactyl wrote:
bagpuss wrote:
Green Man wrote:
There should be no Tax Breaks for the rich, however to keep it fair, tax should be set at the same level for everybody once you get over the minimum thresh-hold or how else could it be called fair? People who earn more, will pay more. Its the sportsmen that opt out of paying income tax by setting themselves up as a company who should be 'Boo-ed off the pitch' Why do working class people worship them?


Nah, those with more should pay proportionally more tax, they still are left with more money than the rest of us


And they may work far harder and make far more sacrifices.


Any they might not

I suspect in any section of the pay scale there will be people who work very hard and people who don't and the spread is probably fairly similar

Why should someone who has had luck and family/school connections and ended up in a job paying 100K plus pay the same percentage of tax as someone who has worked very hard but due to bad luck and lack of opportunity only earns 20K

People whose disposable income is a higher proportion of their wage should pay more tax

(pay should be fair and equitable to but that is even less likely to happen)

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 24473
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 11 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

bagpuss wrote:
Any they might not


Indeed, and unless that's taken into account with everybody I can't really see how anyone can talk about fairness.

Green Man



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5272
Location: Rural Scotland.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 11 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

That is why the same rate for all would ensure rich pay more. Make up complicated rules and bandings and it leaves room for people to 'fiddle' it. Still doesn't answer why footballers shouldn't get hounded out of our society for tax manipulation.

bagpuss



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 10268
Location: cambridge
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 11 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Green Man wrote:
That is why the same rate for all would ensure rich pay more. Make up complicated rules and bandings and it leaves room for people to 'fiddle' it. Still doesn't answer why footballers shouldn't get hounded out of our society for tax manipulation.


Anyone who avoids tax should be hounded out not just the footballers

The level at which you would have to set a flat tax to ensure enough revenue was generated would be a significant burden of those people who don't earn very much

Those who earn more pay a higher percentage of those earnings above a certain boundary, its not complex and its not those boundaries which enable people to get out of paying the tax its all the other complex rules which do that

Don't get me wrong I am all for a simplfied tax system but it still needs levels to ensure people on low incomes aren't unfairly penalised for having a low income

Green Man



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5272
Location: Rural Scotland.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 11 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Then just put up the tax free allowance. I think minimum wage earners should probably pay no tax at all.
I would scrap Tax Credits and push up tax free allowance.

bagpuss



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 10268
Location: cambridge
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 11 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Green Man wrote:
Then just put up the tax free allowance. I think minimum wage earners should probably pay no tax at all.


The tax free allowance should be higher, arguably anyone doing 37hrs on minimum wage should or less pay no income tax

That doesn't change the fact that anyone earning more than say 50K should pay a higher percent on earning above that mark and those earning more than 100K should pay an even higher percent on those earnings above that point

This still leaves these people will more money than anyone who earns less than them but gives the treasury the funds it needs to run a decent service

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