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colour it green
Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 7288
Location: Devon, uk
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 Posted: Mon May 14, 12 3:25 pm Post subject: livestock paperwork fiasco |
 
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we recently bought some sheep at market, and they gave us a printed sheet instead of the AML forms we usually use, and said that was standard and send off a copy etc. which we did
a few days later the market people sent us a handwritten AML form as well.
unsure what to do, we called trading standards, where the AML forms go and asked them what we should do. The woman told us that they no longer deal with AMLs there and gave us a Defra address to use in future.
we said 'you must be forwarding a lot of AMLs then as no one has told us of this address change?' - yes, says she, they are.
Googled the defra address and got their phone number and called to ask them what to do
Defra office appalled as they dont deal with AMLs and they are a fishery dept. Whilst on the phone, got voicemail from TS saying she made a mistake and gave us a London address instead.
Called defra helpline who were appalled as they said TS ARE the ones to send the AMLs to.
Called TS again, got a different person who was appalled at us being told the wrong info. Said she will find out who and correct them. Told us to contact defra to see if the movement has been registered yet
called Defra again, who said they were unable to check if the movement had been registered, but if we sent in any AML form, then that would do. Why cant they check? what is the point of a registry that cannot be checked?
We got a call log ref just to cover ourselves...
I can't imagine why its so expensive to run the paperwork side of things... or why there are errors........ *sigh* |
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judith
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 22789
Location: Montgomeryshire
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 12 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Doesn't surprise me at all.
I took my last three lambs to the abattoir this morning with a completed AML form. Apparently it was the wrong form and had been replaced with a new one some time ago.
Not that anyone has ever sent me any new ones or, as far as I recall, told me that I need to order new ones. Nor have I ever been officially told off for using the old ones.
Fortunately the abattoir had a copy of the new form and we filled it in there. |
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mochyn
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 23446
Location: mid-Wales
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 12 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Ye gods. So glad I'll never have to do it again!  |
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Rob R
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 26490
Location: York
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 12 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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It's the addition of FCI onto the AML's that causes it all. We were sending some pigs in today & booked down 7, because was was a bit younger than the others & also the runt of the litter. Loading them up we realised it was going to be more trouble than it's worth separating out the runt & then keeping him on so in they all went. Logged back in to the AML website & found a confirmation page that asked for the actual number of pigs sent, which I thought was terribly sensible in the circumstances.
I still can't see why they don't have a single system for all farmed livestock, though, and then when it changes everyone can be notified. |
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vegplot
Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 18969
Location: On the circuit at Ty Croes
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 12 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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How on earth they ever hope to catch people who routinely abuse when they don't really know their bottom hole from their arm joint? Their auditors must love them, image the fees. |
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Rob R
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 26490
Location: York
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 12 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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It was caused by a system being put in place with no funding to administer it, and this government obviously hasn't added any money to the pot, quite the opposite. |
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colour it green
Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 7288
Location: Devon, uk
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 12 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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forgot to say
the voice mail that the woman from TS left, correcting the address we don't need for the wrong defra office, and leaving a completely different wrong defra address we didn't need - she forgot to ring off properly, so the end of the message you can hear her talking to a colleague - apparently her partner hurt himself falling off a horse.. then she said FFS - only explicitly - that was when the phone went down....
as it goes, that was on Mr Cigs work voicemail so it is saved as a wav file. |
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Rob R
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 26490
Location: York
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 12 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 21612
Location: yes
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 12 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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wav is magick |
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chicken feed
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 2617
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 12 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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when i checked the pigs licences for the show 1 show = 4 licences there and back as boars a sows have to be on seperate movements
going farm to show
2 females ear tag no xxx & xxx
1 boar ear tag no xxx
show to home read farm to farm
3 females ear tag no xxx & xxx
1 boar ear tag no xxx
so before departure i rang just to let them know the bits they got wrong they told me their system was no working correctly and was being set up as we spoke to process show to farm the paper licence read farm to farm but their sytem showed the correct movement, and the 3 females would have to be corrected when i contacted them to sign off the completed movements. i am looking forward to seeing how they do the farm - show - show - farm in a few weeks |
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oaklandspigs
Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 108
Location: East Sussex
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 12 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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The new pig system is a "bit of a mess" to say the least.
If you're not on-line, then you have to give up to 4 days notice and then wait for paperwork to arrive before you can move.
Even if you're on-line, if your PC is not at your pig site, selling weaners is a nightmare.
And even with PC at site, you have to quiz potential buyers on the phoen as to holding no. adress, herd no. and what they want to buy before they even visit.
Rob - don't wish for one system, as this is the one we'll get !!! - prior notification for sheep would be a complete nightmare - imagine having to give 4 days notice to move sheep between grazing.
Chickenfeed - have no idea how you sort out show moves if you have to come home early. For instance if you plan to go from home to show 1, then to show 2 and then home, you'll have paperwork for this when you set off. Say a relative falls ill and you need to come straight home from show 1, you'll have no paperwork for the relevant move. how does that get sorted? |
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NorthernMonkeyGirl
Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 1893
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 12 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Thank goodness I have nothing to do with pigs!
I find the cattle system to be the easiest/most sensible - you tell them exactly what you've moved, after you've moved it, and you can do it online, so if everything goes tits-up there is a central database of movements and locations (assuming that would be useful, but I gather that's the entire purpose of the regs).
I don't know what *I* am doing in four days time, never mind any pigs And if that system were applied to sheep, is there a tick-box for "I'm moving whatever I can get in the pen"? |
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dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 21612
Location: yes
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 12 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Nick
Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 27097
Location: Hereford
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 12 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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How does it work if you buy pigs without warning, such as from market? |
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Rob R
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 26490
Location: York
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 12 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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They've generally got computers st markets so it's not a problem. |
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