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dolmen
Joined: 07 Oct 2011 Posts: 108
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earthmamma
Joined: 01 Jan 2012 Posts: 411 Location: West Wiltshire
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DawnMK
Joined: 01 Dec 2008 Posts: 895 Location: Buckinghamshire
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Rob R
Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 31902 Location: York
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dolmen
Joined: 07 Oct 2011 Posts: 108
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Rob R
Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 31902 Location: York
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Mutton
Joined: 09 May 2009 Posts: 1508
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Nick
Joined: 02 Nov 2004 Posts: 34535 Location: Hereford
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 12 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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Rob R wrote: |
What are you hoping to achieve by keeping cattle? That will very much influence my answer.
As to housing, this is the best and a variation of the theme will achieve similar results. It depends how extensive you want to go, you won't actually need any housing for their benefit, but you may want some for yours. |
I will be brave enough to disagree with Rob, for purely one reason. If you have an animal that wants some confining, for any reason, it's very difficult to do it without some form of housing or shelter. We have a timber and corrugated hut I put up one weekend for about £200, and they stay well away from it, whatever the weather, but if I needed a vet to deal with a beast, I reckon we'd be glad of it. It also serves as a structure I can use as a race, with the crush, for TB testing, for example. |
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Rob R
Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 31902 Location: York
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NorthernMonkeyGirl
Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Posts: 4591 Location: Peeping over your shoulder
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 12 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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dolmen wrote: |
Thanks folks, thats an interesting looking house, I think something less expensive would meet my needs.
I remember a small farm from my childhood, the cows were kept in a byre, perhaps 6 big cows it was a very nice place to be, the sweet smell from the animals will always stay with me and the milk that was carried to the house tasted fantastic. My first experience of real milk, until then I hated the milk we were given at school, but on that visit to the farm I drank half a gallon and could have taken more.
I guess keeping cows under such conditions has become a thing of the past, but I remember the cows being let out into a yard to exercise while the byre was cleaned and they would have knocked you down in their rush back to their stall when the door was opened. They were fed hay and some course meal it seemed to be a great system and their welfare was well catered for.
Anyone got pics of how their system works? |
Just a thought to consider...
I read an article about smallholders inheriting lovely ancient barns and spending thousands of pounds to restore them, when what would be best for the livestock would be to knock it down and start again.
Remember - old buildings were the best they could do at the time. Limited resources, less choice in building materials, perhaps certain skills (brickwork) plentiful but others (welding!!) not.
We enjoy nice cosy snug little spaces - but we do not have fur coats.
If you're wanting a low input, self sufficient breed then I'm presuming some native British breed. They are happiest in the fresh air, with a choice of "natural" shelters (rocky outcrops, trees, dips in the ground etc etc). So yes, I think we need to provide something as we are restricting their movements. But it needs to be as....non-intrusive as possible. Something light and airy.
The benefit of intensive/technical farming is that work has been done on animal housing, air flow, ventilation etc.
As a "DIY" thing, I would consider walls up to back-height of the adult beast (to avoid chilly draughts), with Yorkshire boarding above that (if anything) and a roof with vents. Any solid wall to be facing the main/coldest wind. And an array of gates and gateposts/fittings so it could be subdivided/made into a race/lead into a crush/become a funnel for loading....
Actually, if the cattle were polled I'd have one wall as a feed barrier too |
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dolmen
Joined: 07 Oct 2011 Posts: 108
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 12 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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interesting the different opinions, a fault I have is that I kinda live in the past, I see many things that have changed for the worse, even with all the modern slant put on it, thats not to say that I don't embrace much of the new ways, cause I do ... but I'm re- looking at many old ways of doing things and finding that they were actually better for our health, perhaps not easier though!
I've talked to a few old guys and they mostly agreed that the byre was a great system, some were better than others, in that door ways were made wider, group sloped to the catchment area, roofs were higher and had more air circulation after the thatch was replaced, cows were more content being in the herd situation without the bullying, cows were cleaner, not stressed and healthier.
So I was looking to try and improve on an old idea if possible, one chap I know has tried, but I see a few flaws IMO eg. the cubicles face into the back wall, then a flat walking area leading to the feeding barrier, he pushes the manure out the length of the house. I'd thought, in reverse order ... feeding barrier, then cubicles, then sloping floor to gates/railings were tractor can push manure out from behind the animals, covered yard each end, one for manure storage other for crush and handling or separate calving pens.
Then I remember seeing some old French housing and thought about improving on their ideas ... feeding barriers looking through to the hay storage was a great step forward on many of the byres in the UK ... hope you are not getting bored with this as I'd like to hear more ideas, or see pics would be great if you have what you consider to the the real deal.
Cheers |
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dolmen
Joined: 07 Oct 2011 Posts: 108
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NorthernMonkeyGirl
Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Posts: 4591 Location: Peeping over your shoulder
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Rob R
Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 31902 Location: York
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dolmen
Joined: 07 Oct 2011 Posts: 108
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 12 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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NorthernMonkeyGirl wrote: |
Some questions then
Are you planning to scrape out the dung every day/week; or to deep litter?
What are you thinking in terms of machinery (tractors etc)? They'll need to fit through any doors/gates. Why have a door instead of a gate?
What are you thinking for bedding - traditional straw? Rubber mats?
What's the floor/base made of? Concrete is extremely slippery. Imagine a dog trying to run on laminate flooring
Can you clarify what you mean by "cubicle" - an individual pen per animal? More cubicles/stalls/divisions means more areas to be cleaned, and more places for germs to hide. Now, I'm no germaphobe but god forbid anything nasty gets in, I want to be able to blast everything and not worry about nooks and crannies.
EDIT - actually, personally, I don't like the thought of penning or chaining individual members of a herd species, agree that it can be necessary for bulls, but prefer to see nice bulls outside with a little gang of steers
Also consider boring things like water supply and troughs |
Firstly I'll say again that this project may never happen, its a pipe dream, that may never come to pass.
Plan is to scrape out every day, total number of cattle will be low.
I love the idea of straw, but in my area all straw is brought/bought in so mats probably.
Cubicle = a stall that fits one animal but free to enter/leave.
and yes I agree about the water situation, nothing worse than frozen pipes in the winter.
Sounds like a good book Rob, but I can see big issues there with dirty water, I know what its like in the winter here and I would not like that problem.
Have you heard of the 'orkney sloping floor'? I think with some tweeking it could be made to work well.
Cheers |
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