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Ash dieback identification
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Woodburner



Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 2904
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 13 8:33 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

Mistress Rose wrote:
. . . then fell them. The new growth will get to adult immunity level in about 10 years.

Surely new growth on old stock still has the adult immunity. After all, even mature trees have new growth every year, if that was affected then they wouldn't be saying trees over 10 years have immunity.

Mistress Rose wrote:
As far as I know, it may be possible to move timber from a site with Chelara, but there are restrictions, and all suspected outbreaks should be reported through the Forestry Commission and any felling, movement etc. done under their direction. Please give as much detail as possible about location, because, 'a dodgy looking ash tree on the M3 between Southampton and Winchester' isn't very helpful.


Oops! My bits are long gone now. Could I have sent them off somewhere for confirmation or refutation (sp?)? I'm not sure I want anyone coming into my garden possibly carrying the real thing, from their previous inspection site, when what I had might have been something else entirely.

Mistress Rose wrote:

We live in hopes that our ash trees survive.
Indeed!

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8726

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 13 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

If you cut down a tree it will coppice. Both this growth and the new shoots sent out by a mature tree are the most at risk of Chelara. In the case of the new coppice growth there is a lot of new growth and very little else except for the stub of the stem(s) and the root. There is a far higher proportion of new growth to infect the lower parts of the system, so more risk of the whole thing dying quickly. With a mature tree, there is far more mature wood, and this seems to be less susceptible to the disease, so the tree may not die, or if it does, it may take longer and the ultimate cause of death could be something else like honey fungus.

Initially you tell the FC the site of the suspected infection, with photos if possible. They will send someone out to inspect I think.

If you have had no more trouble with your ash trees, it may not have been Chelara. There are other ash die back diseases, and leaves can be affected by wind, cold or many other things. Watch them next spring and compare any problems with the symptoms of Chelara. If they look the same, I would strongly recommend you report it.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 43924
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 15 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

We have chalara! The lady from the FC told us that we could pull out the tress if we wanted or just leave them. They're mostly self seeded juveniles 8-10 yrs old in a bit of rough ground.

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8404
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 15 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Bum!! Hope you get some survivors.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8726

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 15 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Sorry to hear that Tahir. If you have no older ash trees to be infected, it might be best to let them stay this year to see if any of them survive. The FC person who had been studying chelara told me that the tree achieves its 'adult' immunity in about 8-10 years, so any over that age that survive probably have at least some immunity.

If you are planting, the best way to minimise the effect of losing ash is to put in a good mix of hardwoods. I will try to find a paper I was reading about it. Rather long and complicated, but very good information in it. I know that we have the right mix in the wood already except for European privit.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 43924
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 15 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

We're planting 5.5ha this winter; oak chestnut hornbeam birch lime sycamore douglas fir scots pine hazel crab apple alder field maple guelder rose

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 32882
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 15 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

shall i fill my pockets with "yorkshirised" seeds ?

that sounds very like my project mix

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 43924
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 15 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Nah it's a forestry commission grant

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8726

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 15 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

That sounds like a good mix Tahir. That sounds like a good area. What density are you planting at to save me having to work it all out after a busy day yesterday?

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 43924
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 15 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

1600 per hectare

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8726

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 15 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

So just over 2m centre for the trees/shrubs? Any more and they tend to spread a bit too much and don't produce good straight trees. Sadly, you have to plant fairly close and then thin before hardwoods get very big, so there is only so much you can use them for. Have seen an example of trees planted too far apart, and they are just a mess.

As far as trees are concerned, we have people saying to us that they aren't worried about the timber potential for oak trees etc. Our reply is that you may not be, but in 100 years time someone will be cursing you if you don't at least consider that. Having a wood that shows what the owners thought in the way of forestry over perhaps 1000 years, and very obviously over the last couple of hundred, rather brings it home to you.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 15 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Unless you constantly control grey squirrels you're unlikely to get much quality timber anyway. As soon as the canopy closes they'll move in an bark strip.

Tahir, is anyone devising a planting plan for you? The woodland manager I've been speaking to a fair bit is now planting in groups with clear gaps around them so most trees grow tall and straight but with the hope squirrels will do less damage.

I also thought sweet chestnut has so many diseases in this country it's not worth planting.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 43924
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 15 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

There's a lot of chestnut round here even though I lost most of my fruiting trees. The fc lady didn't seem to be co Ferber so I included them. I'll ask about squirrels but we don't see a lot of branches stripped by them.

Don't know how good ours will be for timber as I don't know where I'll get the time to do the pruning but yeah that was our thinking

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8726

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 15 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I don't think there is any trouble with sweet chestnut, but horse chestnut is currently suffering badly. The two are completely different. The places we find most squirrel damage is on the main trunk just above a branch, although we have lost quite a lot of branches on mature trees to squirrels. There is timber and timber. It is said that if you let a tree grow on 10 years it doesn't look anything like as bad at the end of the time.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 15 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

There's plenty of problems with sweet chestnut. In the SW areas have had to be felled as it's susceptible to Phytophthora ramorum, so I'd not plant much of it down here. I also read recently an area in the south east had died from something else which I can't remember. (Edit to add, and there's a letter in the current Smallwoods magazine from someone saying dead sweet chestnut in the south east is more common than dead ash or larch in there experience).

As for squirrels you may not think many are about but it only takes a few over a few weeks to damage hundreds of trees. They will often take out the leader in oak. Yes many will recover but at what cost to the quality of the timber? I've got some oaks that have been attacked each year any they're not going to recover, a few that have been stripped so bad they're dying - and I don't have many squirrels. As mentioned, it seems to be a big problem as the canopy of a new wood closes, so 10 - 20 years time.

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