How small can you build a reciprocal frame building?

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How small can you build a reciprocal frame building?
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MikeM

Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Posts: 76
Location: Devon

Posted: Thu May 16, 13 1:39 pm Post subject: How small can you build a reciprocal frame building?
No idea where this should go, sorry if it's in the wrong place. Thinking of having a bash at making a reciprocal framed roundhouse in a spare corner of the holding and was wondering what's the smallest diameter it's possible to build like this. I would guess at most it could be no more than 4m across, so this would be more of a den/ experiment than an actual dwelling. Is this possible?

NorthernMonkeyGirl

Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4590
Location: Peeping over your shoulder

Posted: Thu May 16, 13 2:17 pm Post subject:
This kind of thing?

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Thu May 16, 13 2:22 pm Post subject:
Metal and strawbale construction! What naughty people.

MikeM

Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Posts: 76
Location: Devon

Posted: Thu May 16, 13 3:09 pm Post subject:

NorthernMonkeyGirl wrote:

This kind of thing?

yup, that's the kind of thing, though I was thinking of something less grand and smaller scale.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15598

Posted: Fri May 17, 13 10:36 am Post subject:
If you are thinking of thatching the roof, you need an angle of something like 45 deg. Work our how high you want the ring to be and work it out from there. Other types of roofing may be better or waterproof at different angles, but I remember that about thatch from Butser Ancient Farm when we helped there.

MikeM

Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Posts: 76
Location: Devon

Posted: Fri May 17, 13 12:59 pm Post subject:

I would love to try thatching the roof, never done anything even remotely like it, so no doubt it would leak worse than a hacked off govt employee.

I guess I just wanted to check that a structure about 3m in diameter is a suitable size of a reciprocal roof. The ones I've seen generally seem to be larger. This is a long term project (got a lot of things on the go at the mo) so have plenty of time to do the research.

woodi

Joined: 04 Sep 2011
Posts: 44

Posted: Sat May 18, 13 7:38 am Post subject:

Hi MikeM - we built a little one that is about 16 feet across, and is used as a meeting hut. The size was limited by the trees we had available (larch) and it is still surprising how much you need. As it was a first go, we reckoned that small was probably best.

Timber frame and reciprocal roof; cordwood and cob front wall; strawbale and a mix of lime / mud plaster on the rest. We boarded the outside because we had the timber.
The only downside to making the small size and using straw was getting a bit of curve on the bales, as the curve is quite tight.[/img]

Mary-Jane

Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 18397
Location: The Fishing Strumpet is from Ceredigion in West Wales

Posted: Sat May 18, 13 7:43 am Post subject:
Gosh - that's lovely!

MikeM

Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Posts: 76
Location: Devon

Posted: Sat May 18, 13 8:16 am Post subject:
excellent, thanks woodi. I kinda figured that straw bale would be a challenge on such a small size, would probably use something like wattle and daub. I have a load of scrap timber from a barn I had to pull down a year ago, so will probably use that.

woodi

Joined: 04 Sep 2011
Posts: 44

Posted: Sat May 18, 13 9:58 am Post subject:

I've seen people make woven hazel or willow wall panels, and use them to apply their plaster to. We made a fairly successful one using -
clay soil / sand / chopped straw / dung / bit of horse hair. It cracked a bit as it first dried, but once the cracks were wetted in, it was grand. Probably a bit more horse hair would have helped.
Amazed how well it set in the end.
A hut 4m across would be a good experiment, especially for the roof. Have you come across Tony Wrench's book 'Building a low impact roundhouse'? Well worth getting, its full of useful stuff.
Roof wise we just used a pond liner, plastic, straw on top to protect it and then soil. Solid but heavy.

MikeM

Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Posts: 76
Location: Devon

Posted: Sat May 18, 13 10:02 am Post subject:
I was thinking just after I posted that lime render would probably be easier, though I think I can get the stuff for daub mostly from the holding. I am aware of Tony Wrench (kind of hard not to know him in this game really ) but not of that book. Will check that out, this is still very much in the initial planning phase, so all the info I can get is great.

woodi

Joined: 04 Sep 2011
Posts: 44

Posted: Sat May 18, 13 10:04 am Post subject:
Yep, free is good. We did one wall in lime-hemp which was left over from a job, and then made the mud plaster because we didn't want to spend money on more lime (although it was easier to work with). If you've any amount of clay in your soil it is worth using it. How about cob (if you have lots of patience)?

MikeM

Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Posts: 76
Location: Devon

Posted: Sat May 18, 13 10:09 am Post subject:

well, cob should be doable (our house is a cob cottage) and there used to be a couple of cob cottages/buildings around the place that were demolished many years ago. We're pretty sure we know where they piled the rubble, so I wonder if cob can be recycled. Never worked with it though, so would be a good learning experience.
Re the roof, I was gonna do a turf one, but the thought of thatch has no caught my imagination, probably not feasible, but what fun to learn.

woodi

Joined: 04 Sep 2011
Posts: 44

Posted: Sat May 18, 13 10:23 am Post subject:

Perfect then - always best to use what is successful locally. No idea if you can re-use the cob. I would put some on a plastic tarp, wet it and work it a bit and see what you end up with. Maybe it'd need a bit of extra binding material added, but I can't see why it shouldn't basically be fine.
The only issue with thatch and a reciprocal roof will be getting a good pitch on it. Tony does give a way of calculating what you'll end up with, but it does take a bit of trial and error. All the ones I've seen have been a lowish pitch, but ours was maybe steep enough for thatch, I don't know. The thatched roofs around here (county down) all have a turf layer under the thatch to aid waterproofing, and I believe birch bark is used in some regions as waterproofing. Of course I realise that proper thatching doesn't require this, but certainly where people have been forced to rely on less than ideal materials or DIY thatching, they have employed a bit of a belt and braces approach.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15598

Posted: Sat May 18, 13 3:52 pm Post subject:

If all else fails, you can buy cob blocks which will build into a wall easily, but if you have the old cob, you might be lucky and be able to reuse at least some of it.

If you use thatch, either don't make a hole in the centre of use a chimney as Woodi has done. Otherwise you are creating a good blast furnace. I believe this was discovered the hard way when they started to do reconstruction archaeology of Iron Age round houses, although it was hearsay from the late Dr. Peter Reynolds and I don't have further details.

Woodi, that looks lovely.

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