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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Downsizer Forum Index -> Shooting and Trapping for the Pot
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Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 15 10:30 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

Variety is the spice of life - there's far too much reductionist thinking in the world today, trying to condense everything down to individualistic traits, likes and displikes. I don't like shooting, but I like having the foxes controlled and eating game, so I'm glad that some people do enjoy it.

The anti-s would like you to believe that people who do enjoy things have no control over their lust for doing something, but if that were true all drinkers would be drunks & there'd be just white spirit, no variety of products or regions.

I like conservation as a by-product of beef production, I'd like to do it anyway if I didn't have cattle but I wouldn't be able to (it's touch and go as it is!). The full-time conservationists rely on me and vice versa, equally they have an interdependance with game shooters who plant a lot of wild bird cover nd provide a lot of habitat as a consequence of providing interest & variety in their sport.

We all [species too] rely on eachother in the countryside (even if we choose to pretend that we don't), and a bit of mutual respect is required to maintain a healthy and happy balance.

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 3974
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 15 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

[quote="vegplot:1434058"]Those who think field sports is the preserve of the wealthy have a very narrow view and limited understanding of the sport.

That statement kind of fit`s in with Bennetts mention of Hare Coursing,a well known past time of Yorkshire Miner`s,lol.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 15 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Dog walkers are another group - they walk where they like across private land, cutting fences, chasing sheep and leaving their disgusting piles of worm-ridden crap all over the place.

At the same time they will tell me when the cattle have escaped, an animal needs attention, or kids have been pushing bales into the river.

We're all people at the end of the day, some are inconsiderate eejits, some are the most considerate people you'll ever come across. You can't tell them apart from the colour of their jacket.

vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21297
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 15 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

oldish chris wrote:
vegplot wrote:
Those who think field sports is the preserve of the wealthy have a very narrow view and limited understanding of the sport.

Conversation relies, in part, on the activities of field sports which not only help enrichen biological diversity but also provide valuable revenues for many rural enterprises. By taking an emotional and onesided look at the whole debate serves no real purpose but I expect many who take a vitriolic stance against any form of field sport care not a jot about anything else except their own opinion.

OK! Add to "wealthy", nouveau riche, or anybody who isn't an actual creative type who has a cue about ecology. So, with 1,000s of acres of uplands, massive potential for productivity, or simply to create fresh air and water, some of us refer to charge over it in RangeRovers, run around in Barbour Jackets and shoot everything that moves. Gosh, that's delayed climate change by a 100 years!!!

Hey Nick, I've found where I'd left my chip - Its back in place.


and you found your ignorance as well.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 15 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

vegplot wrote:
oldish chris wrote:
vegplot wrote:
Those who think field sports is the preserve of the wealthy have a very narrow view and limited understanding of the sport.

Conversation relies, in part, on the activities of field sports which not only help enrichen biological diversity but also provide valuable revenues for many rural enterprises. By taking an emotional and onesided look at the whole debate serves no real purpose but I expect many who take a vitriolic stance against any form of field sport care not a jot about anything else except their own opinion.

OK! Add to "wealthy", nouveau riche, or anybody who isn't an actual creative type who has a cue about ecology. So, with 1,000s of acres of uplands, massive potential for productivity, or simply to create fresh air and water, some of us refer to charge over it in RangeRovers, run around in Barbour Jackets and shoot everything that moves. Gosh, that's delayed climate change by a 100 years!!!

Hey Nick, I've found where I'd left my chip - Its back in place.


and you found your ignorance as well.


*smirk*

oldish chris



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 4148
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 15 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

[quote="vegplot:1434101"]
Quote:


and you found your ignorance as well.


My dear fellow downsizer Vegplot, a bit of a personal problem, I'm currently bed-ridden due to a health issue. I know I can rely on you not to be even slightly sympathetic, for which i am grateful. However, as a result I have been able to give our latest run-in a lot of thought.

Our differences over OSes illustrate the problem nicely (IMHO).

I have observed over the years that you have a considerable in-depth knowledge of computing and software development. Similarly, over many years in IT, I too, have acquired such knowledge. However, when you compare the sub-set of human knowledge in your brain with that in mine, the lack of overlap is, lets be honest, frightening (IMHO).

It must be the same with hunting, shooting and field-sports.

I am not ignorant. I am not a "Townie". I am a City dweller. For the past 34 years I have lived on the outskirts of Liverpool. Ecology has long been of great interest to me, (since A levels) and I find Rob's tales of hill farming fascinating (but we'll never agree on beef portion size). My studies of the importance and management of upland areas will be directed by the importance of the Lake Vyrnwy Nature Reserve and Estate.

Field sports are a totally alien concept to me, (City Dweller - remember) and on the rare occasions that me and the shooters have bumped into each other, (three times so far) they did rather antagonise me.

So, yet again, we have two large sub-sets of human knowledge with a frightening lack of overlap.

I'm here to learn, I hang on because I have learnt quite a lot so far.

PS. it was wrong of me to be deliberately antagonistic. No promises but I will try to stop.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 15 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I'm sorry to hear of your health problem's Chris.

However, my tales are the exactly opposite of hill farming, but why does any discussion involving the countryside and/or field sports seem to focus on the wealthy? I know a lot of people who shoot, but I know of very few, if any, who would be classed as wealthy (by modern standards) and a good proportion that would be described as 'poor'.

Graham Hyde



Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 365

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 15 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

As an aside and somewhat off topic but does anyone remember the TV series where Jackie Charlton (Leeds and England centre half) hunted various animals?
I remember one episode where he and a spotter lay in wait for geese. A goose which had flown all the way from Canada or somewhere far away was almost straight above, not very high and was easily shot and killed by a cartridge which scatters/sprays lead shot.
Didn't seem much of a sport to me.

Shane



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 3035
Location: Doha. Is hot.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 15 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Some would say that it's not very sporting of the Canada goose to thank us for artificially introducing it to the UK by massively increasing in numbers (40-fold increase since the 50s) and becoming an agricultural pest.

I'd say an easy kill is the best way for a pest species (or, indeed, any species).

Graham Hyde



Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 365

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 15 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Still doesn't seem much of a sport.

OtleyLad



Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 2737
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 15 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I don't find it difficult to empathise with those who think killing animals is a grizzly, callous thing to do, especially if these same people have only ever seen meat in neat plastic wrapped portions on a supermarket shelf or perhaps cuddled a lamb in a rare breeds 'farm'. But that has come about through the disconnect between food production and most people's lives. It doesn't mean that killing animals for food is wrong nor that people who do it for a living are psychopaths.

I've a dog and walk him most days on Ilkley Moor where there are a fair number of grouse reared to be shot. Most of the dog walkers are considerate but some are complete f***wits and have no idea how to control their animals. So I can see how the sheep farmers and grouse shooters get fed up with them.
On the other hand I like grouse and pheasant to eat but find it hard to see how shooting them is a sport - they don't seem to fly in anything but straight lines (and quite slowly at that). It can't be much less of a challenge to shoot clay pigeons?
The Moor is quite a barren place really, its regularly burnt to keep the heather regenerating so the grouse can feed off the young shoots. The sheep grazing on it make sure that any tree saplings that appear are quickly nibbled to death. This regime means that a strange, unnatural habitat is maintained in which the ground nesting grouse can thrive. One or two other ground nesting birds make use of it too but this is coincidental (although the shooters sometimes use it an example of their good stewardship). So I don't buy the conservation argument in this instance.

Nearby we have Harewood House and they rear herds of deer for venison. I've never seen or heard of any protesters complaining of this - I suppose because it’s not done in the name of 'sport'. I like to assume the animals are slaughtered humanely.

Graham Hyde



Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 365

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 15 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Otley Lad, do you go on the moor 'ba tat'?

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 15 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Graham Hyde wrote:
Still doesn't seem much of a sport.


Have you tried it?

Moving targets, in the air are much harder to hit, and then you have range to consider. Shoots prefer high birds for good sport and employ beaters to get them up and flying. It's by no means a sure thing. Then you've got to find and retrieve the bird, a challenge in itself.

Cathryn



Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19829
Location: Ceredigion
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 15 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

My version is similar to Robs and based on experience. I don't shoot but my partner does. He's a sheep farmer and shoots with a small group of local people. We don't have a range rover and he shoots in his wellies and a his cleaner farm coat. He does have some water repellent plus fours that I bought him for Christmas one year. It is quite an expensive hobby as it involves managing the land as well as raising birds. This is useful in the general armoury of, well I quite fancy a day out with the girls but it might be a bit expensive etc, etc

A part of our friends farm is managed for this - I can't imagine that parts of it could be managed for anything else as it covers some steep scrubby hillsides. Perfect for the high flying birds that they all prefer. They are not interested in the numbers they shoot. Everyone takes home and eats two or three pheasant and the occasional duck. A lot of time is spent eating lunch which they take it in turns to provide. Home made game pies and sausage rolls being the general theme.

The next nearest shoot is on incredibly hilly land. Helicopters bring in many of the guns and thousands of birds are released every year.

It's a bit like watching Aberystwyth Town or Manchester United play football. A loose definition of sport. Both enjoyable in their own ways. Another thread perhaps.

Another point, our farm was once managed as a shoot as well and partly as a result has a very diverse range of birds, animals and habitats compared to many other sheep farms.

Graham Hyde



Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 365

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 15 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Hi Cathryn, I appreciate that the activity you describe is a sport of kind with a days enjoyment with fellow minded people.
I was describing a long ago TV series where one man went out killing things, no pleasant company, not involved with managing land, just killing things.
If I remember right, one week was a stag, one week a salmon and that goose I mentioned. It wasn't a Canadian Goose, I remember it being all white.
Anyway, well off topic....sorry.

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