alternatives to fossil fuels

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dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45521
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 14 12:38 pm Post subject: alternatives to fossil fuels

ive posted this chap's work elsewhere but thought it might be a good idea to start a "brainstorming"thread re becoming independent of fossil fuel/big energy/greenwash projects that depend on subsidies or destructive mineral extraction to be practical and economically viable

cracking sticks

in the r n d form it looks well dangeroos but it does demonstrate liquid and gas fuels from timber etc

the Belorussian partisans did something similar during ww2 for vehicle fuel and i see no reason this type of process could not be scaled up and tidied for wider use

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 14 12:55 pm Post subject:
Like the situation with bio fuel,we have to import timber to make any effect,so were back to the US and Russia for supplies.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45521
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 14 3:26 pm Post subject:

4.5 million acres of sporting estates would be a nice coppiced/ fast growing fuel trees forest for a start

another million or so set aside and half a million in forest at the mo

so at say 12 tons/acre per year

72 million tons of fuel per year

drax uses about 10 million tons coal a year at 20000btu per ton

if that was wood at 8000 btu per ton it would need about 25 million tons

so 2 drax size plants would be well within possible uk supply by my maths anyway

what do you think ?is it sensible ?

i dont think the big landowners would mind that much if they had no choice and got well payed if necessary(and squizzers were presented as even more "fun"than grouse )

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45521
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 14 3:29 pm Post subject:
if the waste heat from the cracking was producing electric as well as fuels i recon it would be quite a start

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 14 5:11 pm Post subject:
Yet Drax supplies come from the US South East,after a UK Government grant of 1billion i believe, Eggborough bio plant seems to be scrapped The energy minister intends phasing out coal by 2030 Maybe he has shares in German Lignite power generation,as that is what it looks like is going to happen following these EU directives.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15600

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 14 8:13 am Post subject:

We have coal, and some natural gas and oil under this country, and if most woods were coppiced in some way; cycle from 3-50 years, we would have more wood for firewood, chippings etc. for power generation. Of these, only timber and wood are renewable, so we need other renewables as well.

A good start would be a long term strategy by all political parties on how we can be less dependant on other countries for all sorts of energy. Then we could develop an industry to serve the need. With changes in idea, subsidy and interest by political parties every year or so, is it surprising that the energy industry, particularly renewable, is in disarray?

We have tried the old technique of extracting Stockholm tar from wood, but it wasn't very successful. Our charcoal kiln is rather better at it. I believe there was a plant set up somewhere in the north or Scotland to try to develop wood tar and oil, but it wasn't very successful and had a rather short life-late 19th or early 20th century I think.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45521
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 14 9:38 am Post subject:
late 19th/early 20th c was the time of the ascent of Rockefeller and the rest of the seven sisters who put a lot of effort into suppressing any energy supply they did not control be it small or huge .

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45521
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 14 10:47 am Post subject:
a bit of history before 1928 such things were less organised but those actions led to the 1928 dinner

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45521
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 14 10:51 am Post subject:
it is important to put this stuff in the context of the rothschild /bis banking system and the ascent of the military/industrial powers of the 20/21st c rather than in isolation and just about energy supply.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45521
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 14 1:15 pm Post subject:
proish antizionist ownbrand as we can see they have a variety of histories but whatever the truth they are deeply involved in how things are bis as is the bis

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45521
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 14 4:47 pm Post subject:

3 hours of documentaries about oil/gas is rather a lot but it is a history of the last hundred odd years so quite a rapid overview really

the level of psychopathic behavior is stunning both historically and ongoing.

i see the sustainable alternatives with current tech to include timber,moving water and what?

in a few places pv or wind ,ground source heat pump,direct solar heating ,geothermal heat and what ? can add a bit small local scale energy input

with some joined up thinking savings via efficiency can be made

im almost getting to the idea of pumping out the selby field and hauling coal up to process/burn above ground to give us a base energy supply for a few years and spending the profit to do the r n d to get things sorted for long term with trees and moving water .

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 14 5:18 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

late 19th/early 20th c was the time of the ascent of Rockefeller and the rest of the seven sisters who put a lot of effort into suppressing any energy supply they did not control be it small or huge .

So do we sit around moaning about it, or do we crack on with backyard microgeneration?

I was interrupted on the video, but what is this "bio-crude" which he seems to be working with?

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45521
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 14 7:10 pm Post subject:
a basic first distillation from twigs and a couple of dry cow pats wood in a tin with no air inlet and an outlet for the gasses , get it hot and collect the tars/oils/resins by cooling the distillate the clever bit is the catalytic cracking (a bit like big oil does from heavy crude to convert big molecules into more of the fractions that sell )

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 14 11:02 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

the clever bit is the catalytic cracking (a bit like big oil does from heavy crude to convert big molecules into more of the fractions that sell )

Is it any more clever than how big oil does it?

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45521
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 14 11:09 pm Post subject:
no but it is quite clever with little but a scrap pile i recon it would scale up to a drax/grangemouth size and with the reforesting could be suitable for maybe a 40% base line system for uk needs in electric and liquid fuels as a back yard thing made from scrap tis a bit mad max but if needs must etc

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