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dan1

"TRESPASSERS WILL BE SHOT"

Is it legal to put a threatening notice like this on your barn wall? I'm having a dispute with an angry aggressive farmer who's taken exception to my beehive. It's been there a year in my garden + is close to the blind wall of a long vacant stable which he's decided to rent out to horses. There's a 10ft hedge twixt hive and stable also. He's threatening court if I don't move it. I don't think legally he has a leg to stand on. I just wondered if I could point out that this is a dodgy thing to write on a wall (it isn't even illegal to trespass if damage isn't caused, I believe)
Behemoth

Don't think it's illegal, it might be 'humour'. Of course actually shooting people is frowned upon.
misty07

when i went to train as a security guard i was told there is no law on trespass as all you do is ask them to leave but then if they step on a blade of grass and snap it that's criminal damage and you can be prosecuted on that charge so i believe good luck on your problem
JB

Possibly not very helpful but I used to have a sign which read 'trespassers will be shot and, if practicable, questioned'
misty07

Possibly not very helpful but I used to have a sign which read 'trespassers will be shot and, if practicable, questioned'
i seen the one saying trespassers will be shot and violators will be shot again or something along them lines.
woody guthrie

Is this the one you mean Misty?

Behemoth

Not sure what it's got to do with bees though and suspect arsey farmer is legless, but not in a drunken manner.
perlogalism

How about putting up a sign of your own?

"Armed farmers will be stung" seems appropriate Laughing
kirstyfern

He must be a bl**dy good shot to kill a bee....... !
T.G

We had one which said trespassers would be eaten we had several gt danes at the time Laughing - it was, however, in jest but overall it's not a good idea
Mutton

We used to keep bees and will again when we have the time, so sympathise.
Couple of thoughts:
Are the bees flying at a level across his yard, where they could bounce off a rider mounted on a horse? And then potentially sting the rider? Who could then fall off, be seriously injured etc?

(Was called into a row once, not my bees, where someone was having outside work done on their house and the builders on the scaffolding were stung as the scaffolding was in next door's bees flight path, 8 feet off the ground. Beekeeper paid for plastic mesh cladding to be purchased, builders put it on outside of scaffolding, bees diverted round, everyone happy.)

Are you already insured and does that include public liability?

No excuse for him being aggressive, but you could run into other problems. The sensible thing to my mind would be for him to advise the riders to lead their horses out of the yard and then mount, if there is a regular flight path across the yard.

Further to that, some years since I kept bees, but I do remember vaguely there being several chemicals that are sprayed on horses which read like the pheromone for "sting here we are under attack" when a bee smells it. Can't remember if only for sale in the US, or was also in UK. Same for a brand of hairspray, but think that was US only.
Rob R

Re: "TRESPASSERS WILL BE SHOT"

It's been there a year in my garden + is close to the blind wall of a long vacant stable which he's decided to rent out to horses.


You say that as if it's somehow an inappropriate use... Laughing I guess it depends upon what the horses using it for. Mr. Green
giveitago

Im suprised no one has thought of the BEWARE OF THE BEE sign. Mrs R

Horses n bees - I once bought a hat, and as soon as I had a bee came along and started frantically stinging it in my hand Shocked I asked why and the guy said 'it's horseskin'.

Wasn't quite sure if that was a myth or what?...
Nick

No, it was a bee.

A myth is a female moth. Everyone knows that.

Coat time?
Chez

Can you set something up so they get up above the horses and rider's heads? I thought that they like to fly fifteen feet above the ground - so if some bee netting goes up, getting them up that high before they go over the yard, it should be okay? wipka84

It would take a lot more than a blade of grass to get the police out and arrest any tresspassers.

The law sees tresspassing as a civil matter, not a criminal one unless it can be proved that criminal damage has taken place. Even then, you'd need witnesses, evidence that it was them and they hadnt already found the place like that. Only way to get someone off is through the courts which can take weeks and is costly.

With regard to your bees neing a 'nusiance' to next door I would've thought you're better off putting a clear sign up readable from next door warning that bees are in the area, then your duty to anyone that is harmed by the bees would at least be mitigated.

Or just redirect the bees using fencing.
Rob R


With regard to your bees neing a 'nusiance' to next door I would've thought you're better off putting a clear sign up readable from next door warning that bees are in the area, then your duty to anyone that is harmed by the bees would at least be mitigated.


Not necessarily - if you do that with cattle and put up a 'beware of the bull' sign you are, in the eyes of the law, admitting that you aware he is dangerous and you are therefore culpable. I assume it is the same for bees.
T.G

/nod Mutton

Are you a member of British Beekeeping Society?

They (certainly used to) do bee specific insurance and could probably talk you through this.

Oh and in terms of signs, an American I used to know who owned a thumping great vicious looking (soft as butter) dog, said Beware = I admit he is dangerous. Be aware doesn't.

Equally if you put up signs of any sort saying "bees here" you might have vandals in at night. I never had any trouble, but I do remember seeing adverts for beekeeping suits in camouflage colours so if you had beehives in places where they might get vandalised (old railway siding or whatever) it was less obvious when you went to tend them.
Tavascarow

Are you a member of British Beekeeping Society?

They (certainly used to) do bee specific insurance and could probably talk you through this.

Oh and in terms of signs, an American I used to know who owned a thumping great vicious looking (soft as butter) dog, said Beware = I admit he is dangerous. Be aware doesn't.

Equally if you put up signs of any sort saying "bees here" you might have vandals in at night. I never had any trouble, but I do remember seeing adverts for beekeeping suits in camouflage colours so if you had beehives in places where they might get vandalised (old railway siding or whatever) it was less obvious when you went to tend them.
From what I've read no one in the UK has ever been prosecuted for their bees causing a nuisance or stinging someone.
It's down to the individual to prove who's bees have been causing the problem.
I suppose with DNA testing, that is now possible, but not cheap.
So BBKA insurance is a waste of money IMHO.
WandaBlue

Thought this link might be relevant here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-13942849
dan1

That link was about horses which disturbed the hives/knocked them over which shouldn't be a problem if he keeps them out of my garden. There isn't any good, non-anecdotal evidence that bees are attracted to horses or their sweat and all the instances of harm I can find have arisen after livestock knocked over hives. Usually exacerbated by them being tethered/fenced in + unable to run away. mark

I gather the normally way to mollify neighbours close to hive sites is to gift them honey.

If you haven't done this over the years maybe a little catch up would be called for.

If it is hard for him to let his stables he will take a financial loss if he loses the customers - times are hard now so if he is letting stables he didn't before maybe he needs the income.

You can both try to find a mutually acceptable solution - or you can slug it out!

If you have gifted some honey and put up mesh to redirect bees and he is still awkward then you can shoot him - but not before !
Mistress Rose

Some horse owners say bees will attack horses whether this is true or not.

BBKA insurance will give you third party insurance, so is useful in case of problems. In addition, a local beekeeping association affiliated to BBKA can give you other support, training and sometimes other advantages.

If you do all you can to minimise the nuisance, like make sure the bees will go well above any horse riders etc. you will have been seen to have done all you can. Try talking to the farmer explaining all this. If he won't talk, then you can't do anything about it I am afraid, exept take advice (CAB may be able to help), or move your hives.

A percieved risk is always a problem with bees even if there is no actual risk.
Sally Too

On the topic of horses - we have both bees and horses here. For a while the bees were sited with just a wire fence between them and the horse field. We had no problems. The bees tended to go up fairly quickly anyway and on the odd day a bee bumped off a horse the horse just tossed its head and moved out of the flight path.

Of course the bot fly looks and sounds like a bee and they do chase and harass horses trying to lay eggs on their legs. Horses hate these and will often gallop round the field to try to evade them. The bot fly will give chase! We had one pony who didn't care and was covered in eggs, another who would go batty and we'd bring her in to protect her.

Our bees are now sited on a bank above the garden. Sometimes their flight path goes over the bounce zone of the trampoline! So the kids have to wait a bit. Another day they were coming round the hedge to where I was working in the garden. I didn't get stung but was bumped and investigated a bit. So I hung a sheet up to divert them another way until I'd finished my task.

It sounds as though this neighbour didn't approach you very tactfully. Hopefully it can all be sorted amicably. A pot of honey, some indication of how to reduce bee flow over the yard, and I'm sure it will turn out that you just caught the neighbour on a bad day.... we all have them I'm sure!

Hope it all works out for you both.
Marches

He's trying to rent out the stables to people with horses and doesn't want them or the horses to get stung. Just be reasonable and move the hive. dpack

would a jar of huney and a nice cup of tea sort it out ? toggle

He's trying to rent out the stables to people with horses and doesn't want them or the horses to get stung. Just be reasonable and move the hive.

giving way to someoen who is being angry, aggressive and unreasonable is usually a good way to end up with them making successively more unreasonable demands.
Marches

He's trying to rent out the stables to people with horses and doesn't want them or the horses to get stung. Just be reasonable and move the hive.

giving way to someoen who is being angry, aggressive and unreasonable is usually a good way to end up with them making successively more unreasonable demands.

I know, but in this case the demand isn't unreasonable, if anything it is inconsiderate not to move the considering the reasons.
dpack

try to talk sensibly
if both parties understand the needs of the other it is easier to find a happy ending that is good for all

teach the bees to go postal is another option
Tavascarow

He's trying to rent out the stables to people with horses and doesn't want them or the horses to get stung. Just be reasonable and move the hive.

giving way to someoen who is being angry, aggressive and unreasonable is usually a good way to end up with them making successively more unreasonable demands.

I know, but in this case the demand isn't unreasonable, if anything it is inconsiderate not to move the considering the reasons.
The original poster has as much right to keep bees on their land as he to keep horses on his.
Facing a hive entrance in the opposite direction & screening the boundary so any bees flying that way will be high above any danger is perfectly adequate to minimise the risk of anyone, or any ones horse being stung to an acceptable level.
I would be very careful not to let them swarm so plenty of space, early splits, a queen that doesn't produce over swarmy bees (keep away from Italian genes) & obviously good tempered bees would be essential IMHO,
If a swarm pitches in his yard or sets up home in his barn he wont be pleased even though in the swarming state they are at their most harmless, unless a fool swipes them with a stick.
Unfortunately with bees it's impossible to keep them in one place, so if anyone gets stung in his stable by anything wild, feral or an entirely different species you & your bees will get blamed.

Education is the best policy but from the original posters description his neighbour doesn't seem to see it from any perspective other than hid own so I wish them luck..
magnet

forget the sign just go round and nut him! simples. argee

Could it be offered to Chute the Offender to care not where they land ... Smile
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