| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| Cathryn |
...that an "opt out" for organ donation...is being considered? "Presumed consent" instead of the "opt in" that we have at the moment?http://new.wales.gov.uk/publications/accessinfo/drnewhomepage/healthdrs/healthdrs2007/1932046/?lang=en Consultation starts on this in a month. http://www.uktransplant.org.uk/ukt/ |
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| Grimnir |
To me? Not at all really. I'm opted in anyway - if they really want bits of this carcass once it becomes a carcass they can have them. I won't need them where I'm going 
I can imagine there will be a few nasty court cases if it does go through though with relatives of opt-outers finding their wishes have been ignored, but doesn't that still happen now anyway? |
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| Northern_Lad |
Yes, but only because the current method of having to opt in and simper to possible reservations about it just being, well, wrong in some icky way is stupidly daft.
You're gone; you've shuffled your mortal coil and gone to join the choir invisible: leave your useful bits for those who might need them. |
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| Fee |
Well, I've 'opted-in' too, as it were, but I did ask them not to take my eyes.
Bloomin' stupid, I know, I'm sure we've had this discussion before, I certainly have amongst offline friends, turns out the majority of us had said to take everything but our eyes. I wouldn't want them to take Paul's eyes either, though, I want to be able to kiss those if he goes before me. |
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| cab |
I'm all in favour of organ donation, and I like the idea of 'opt out' rather than 'opt in'. | ||||||
| jocorless |
Me too - considering I've recently watched my Mother die in the most horrendous way which wouldn't have happened if she had had the opportunity of a kidney transplant - She was on the waiting list for 19 years because her blood group was 'O' - the most common - There simply aren't enough people opting-in and Doctors are still very reluctant to ask people for permission - which is perfectly understandable. | ||||||
| 2steps |
Same here. There is just something strange and uncomfortable about someone else walking around with my eyes. I think that having people needing to opt out will mean there are more organs donated as only people who really don't want to will do it were as at the moment a lot of people are probably happy to donate but don't get around to registering so can't |
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| cab |
Precisely, anyone with a reason not to can still opt out, but apathy would no longer be the reason why others die for want of a transplantable organ. Your eyes thing ain't rational, but, still, better to be registered for everything else and not the retinas than not to be registered at all, so good on you
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| Jamanda |
What do you mean by "opting in"? I carry a kidney donor card. Is that what you mean? |
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| Cathryn |
The crucial difference would be in the approach to relatives. Instead of being asked to consent to donation, they would be informed that their relative had not opted out of donation. Unless they object – either because they are aware of an unregistered objection by the individual or because it would cause them major distress – the donation would proceed.
This is a (tiny) summary of the soft option supported by the BMA. The hard option would be not to consult with relatives. Another option is to make it a law that we all register whether or not we allow our organs to be used after our death. Yep, opting in is carrying a card, as now. |
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| Louisdog |
I agree about the eye thing, but TBH I don't know what donating your eyes actually involves - would they be recognisable as my eyes in someone else's head, or would the Drs just take out some soggy flap of tissue from the middle and put that in the other person's eyeball? | ||||||
| Brownbear |
Apparently - according to my consultant - there was a great reduction in the number of relatives agreeing to the removal of organs for transplant, after George Best got a sparkly new liver and then promptly drank himself to death, which he could have done perfectly well with the old liver. | ||||||
| 2steps |
I'd be interested in knowing too as I may change my mind depending on what they actually take. I had always assumed it was the whole eye |
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| Cathryn |
Um, I am out of touch but in the distant past when I was nursing I worked on an eye ward with a fridge that always held donated eyes and very valuable they were to. At the time only corneal transplants were done but I suspect things have moved on since then. So just the clear bit at the front of the eye was used. Anyone got any more current info? | ||||||
| Frewen |
When I was a theatre nurse - it was for the cornea that eye donations were gratefully received. I think the sclera can be used too but not the eye in its entire state. | ||||||
| Fee |
I'm registered as an organ donor, and carry a card. You can choose not to donate eyeses. |
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| Brownbear |
Anyone mad enough to want any bits of my innards when I'm done abusing them is more than welcome.
Even if you opt in to the organ donar scheme, it's still the relatives who have the final say-so, I believe. |
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| Louisdog |
I just found some info which says that if you donate eyes, they take the whole eye and bury/cremate you with artificial ones in place, even though it seems like they only use the corneas in most cases.
I also found quite a few references to a paper about how a lot of people feel really uncomfortable about donating their eyes, even though they cannot explain why. It does seem horrible somehow, perhaps because they are the windows to the soul, or perhaps I am being squeamish. I can't imagine it'll make much difference to me when the time comes, so if someone can use them, they should. |
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| Erikht |
This is probably a good way of doing it. If you don't want to donate, be that out of religious or other decent reasons, or if you have reasons that make sense to you but not to anybody else, you can always opt out.
But you can be damn sure that some anti-social misfit in the libertarian part of politics will whine about "the state trying to take over your body." |
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| 2steps |
I'd be furious if mine did that, or rather I would be if I wasn't dead   I'll haunt them until they change their minds
The windows to the soul thing is what really gets me, I think. Eyes can say so much but if they aren't that persons what are they saying?  completely illogical I'm sure but still feels weird.
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| cab |
Some useful info:
http://www.nerc.co.uk/helping_us_cornea_donation.htm When you're dead, you don't need your corneas any more. Give 'em to someone who does; squeamishness is perfectly natural, but just think, you'd be dead and gone but as a result someone else wouldn't be going blind, and even if you ruin the rest of your body with wine, women and song like Brownbear aims to do, you'd be making a heck of a difference to someones life. |
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| Marionb |
You'll probably think I'm mad.... but the thought of a close family member ie. mum, dad, kids, etc being in a coffin without their eyes just makes me shudder.... 
I did say you'd think I'm mad.... 
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| lottie |
It's not always that simple though,I am happy to donate my organs but my husband can't bear the thought of it, he says if I really insist he will respect my wishes but he'd prefer me not to do it. Since I flatter myself he'd be already upset by my death I'm not sure about inflicting that extra upset on him just because I think I'm right. |
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| Erikht |
Will they take them even if my sight is horribly bad? | ||||||
| 2steps |
True but at the end of the day, it is my decision not their's and they shouldn't be able to overide my choice about me because they aren't happy about the idea. even if they hate it, they should respect my wishes just as I'd respect their's not to donate |
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| LynneA |
Having been a sickly child, most of me is dodgy or worn out anyway.
The only thing I have to offer in perfect order are my fingernails 
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| lottie |
Not even sure that bit of me would pass muster
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| Frewen |
Yes - cataracts, poor eyesight or age have no effect on the corneal tissue. |
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| Frewen |
Unless of course it's your cornea that's gone cone shaped
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| Helen M |
makes me cross. my dad has sorosis and has been tee total all his life. he got told today he may well only have the transplant option left. mum is in a right two and eight. so i'm not really sure how i feel about all this at the moment |
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| Cathryn |
I am sorry Helen. It is a very personal debate for you.
However it is a life changing debate which is going to happen and I would like to see as much public comment on it as possible. |
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| Helen M |
and i support it whole heartedly. just not sure i am the right one to comment at the moment. i certainly wasn't trying to be difficult
it is indeed a life changing debate and an importent one. anything that would make my dad well again i am in favour of but due to this i feel i have an unfairly biased opinion so i shall remain quietly reading
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| Cathryn |
I disagree with you. You weren't being difficult and all our opinions are valid, we all have different circumstances.
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| Helen M |
thank you x you are kind. i do try to give balanced opinions most of the time
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| Frewen |
If it was me or my dearest husband you could have whatever you wanted.
If it was my little ones - you'd not get me to behave rationally
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| Helen M |
me too. that is why i find this debate so difficult. |
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| mihto |
I think all parents have the same gut feeling - before disaster strikes. Friends of mine lost a son in a car accident, and much later the mother told me that the thought of the several youngsters whose lives were saved because they agreed to make him a donor kept her going. Maybe this is a decision we cannot make untill we actually have to. |
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| Frewen |
I am sure you are right - I gave up theatre nursing in the late 90's and I was accustomed to all sorts of dreadful scenarios. When I left that waned.
You can never tell quite how you are going to feel until you find yourself there. |
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| Helen M |
hence daddy darling and his "bonky" liver. poor ma and pa. i feel kinda helpless but i know if he had a transplant he would be so much better. he is wasteing away. he doesn't seem to think he will make it much past sixty. and i want him to be the grumpy old git he promised he would. ergo. opinions are slightly off kilter at the moment 
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| mihto |
How old are yor parents, Helen? |
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| Helen M |
ma is 58 and dad is 59 | ||||||
| mihto |
My age. It's easier to understand where people are emotionally when one knows a bit more about them. This is an age where one does not expect serious disease and yes, it is horribly unfair. We expect to be allowed to become old and grumpy grandparents: we have a lot of energy still. If he gets a new liver he is young enough to have many more years of high quality life. You must keep us informed, Helen, we really care even if some of us only know each other from Downsizer. You have many friends here. |
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| Helen M |
thank you so much. you made me cry a bit and i will i promise
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