| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| Rob R |
...That livestock keeping is becoming impossible?I've just been reading the latest edition of the Ark magazine from the Rare Breeds Survival Trust in which is an article about the results of a survey from February this year.A sample of 350 members were surveyed, 288 valid returns were analysed: 13% of respondents intend to abandon livestock keeping in 2008. 43% intend to abandon livestock keeping in the next three years. Poultry (46 respondents) 24% in next three years Sheep and goats (200) 56% Pigs (53) 53% Cattle (111) 49% Main reasons cited were (in no particular order): - rising feed costs - bluetongue - double tagging - avian influenza - bureaucracy (in particular were transport regulations) - foot & mouth disease Edited for clarity |
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| wellington womble |
What a pain. At this rate farming is going to become an expensive hobby. I wonder what can be done about that? | ||||||
| Rob R |
For a government who pledged in their manifesto to reduce the bureaucratic burden on farmers, it just hasn't happened. | ||||||
| Cathryn |
So the main reason is that they cannot make it cost effective because of the rise in food costs? Nothing about competition from foreign markets? Or is that implied in all the answers? I would like to have seen the questions. | ||||||
| Shane |
I was talking to the farmer that we use at the weekend (well his wife, anyway), and she was saying that at the moment the price differential between the dairy calves that they buy and the income that each one generates is around £500. She said that there's no way they can even break even on those figures at the moment, chiefly because of the price of diesel and winter feed. They've currently stopped buying calves so, if nothing changes, they've effectively shut the place down within the next couple of years. | ||||||
| Rob R |
No, they were the main reasons, it varies with species so they are in no particular order.
No, foreign competition is less of a concern to rare breed keepers, and it has less of a direct impact upon farmers so could only be a perception in most cases.
Anyone got a copy they didn't return? |
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| jema |
I do take this sort of thing with a pinch of salt, there is more and more consumer awareness and desire to buy British meat, the law of supply and demand will redress prices if farmers do drop out of the market.
I think as ever the biggest issue is that farmers are squeezed as much as possible by the Supermarkets that dominate the market. Didn't all the original HMM calculations show that it should have been an attractive proposition for both farmer and buyer? |
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| Rob R |
I maybe didn't make this very clear in the original post but this is a survey among rare breed members where it only takes a handful of people to drop out & take a huge chunk of a breed (and our livestock heritage) with them. I have to say that when a new 'rule' drops through the door it makes you wonder if it is really worth the bother.
Edit to add: When I first passed my test I thought it was going to get easier- finally being able to move my own livestock around after years of relying on others. Then they introduced another driving test I have to take & now a test for each species of livestock- it would be interesting to know if such new legislation ever produces the desired results that are used as justification for its introduction. |
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| Chez |
It's certainly one of the arguments against people keeping hybrids rather than pure breeds - thinking chicken here, obviously. |
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| Treacodactyl |
By the looks of the reasons given not in this case. Probably the main thing that might put me off is all the rules and regs. |
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| wellington womble |
You need additional driving licenses to drive different livestock around? Really? What's the supposed reasoning behind that?
Sure puts me off. |
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| Rob R |
No, trailers in general if you got your license after 1st January 1997 but they applied it retrospectively so when I got my first license it had trailer entitlement but then it got taken away.  I was referring to that & the new animal transport rules in one garbled rant. 
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| Cathryn |
But the follow through consequences of losing a niche market or at least a niche product reduces choice, increases the risk of a bland homogenised product. It might not be the farmers' reasons but it should be ours. |
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| Treacodactyl |
I still don't think you can blame the supermarkets in this case and to do so just confuses matters. Looking at the list of reasons there's a few that seem unavoidable but many are caused by the government, including the latest F&M outbreak. Personally I'm less worried about a 'bland and homogenised product', which I doubt most people will notice, and I'm more worried about the loss of genetic material which might come in hand in the future. |
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| Cathryn |
No I agree you can't. It was the follow through of the thought of loss of possible loss of breeds (and not good loss of genetic materials).
And bland and homogenised, again I agree with you but I am an idealist and want to change the fact that few people will notice it. |
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| Treacodactyl |
I would also be curious to know how well the market for rare breed meat is doing while many people are tightening their belts.
I think increasingly it's going to be people who don't need to make any money from farming that'll keep the rare breeds going but even they will be put off by the bureaucracy, those that still follow it that is. |
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| Rob R |
Interesting point here is that 'bland and homogenised' is a term that can apply equally to the product or to the genetic make up of our national herds/flocks. Also the 'disease' problems that are contributing to this loss are exactly the kind of problems that will be overcome by a more varied genetic make up, if it survives long enough for the majority to realise that importance (to be fair the government has started to realise but the provision being made is by no means large enough). I put disease in inverted commas because it is not the actual disease that farmers now fear most. |
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| milkmaid |
i'm not surprised ,although i'd put paperwork/rule changes at the top followed by feed costs | ||||||
| Marts |
If I understand this correctly its just a mockery of a law - I just checked my licence and I have Category B+E entitlement. I also have entitlement to tow a bigger looking trailer with a van (C1E) and a trailer with what looks like a minibus (D1E) All this despite the fact that you've probably done lots of driving with trailers attached to your vehicle and I have never towed anything in my life. Daft. 
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| Treacodactyl |
Same here, I seem to be able to drive quite a range of things and trailers but never have. I wouldn't mind a bit of training before I tow anything too big or alive. 
Regardless of trailers you also need qualifications to transport animals over a certain distance don't you? |
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| Rob R |
You are also entitled to drive a tractor with a 44ft trailer behind (so therefore longer than a standard articulated HGV) on a car license. 
I see the sense in licensing towing drivers but after I passed in '97 I had B + E on my license but due to health I have to renew it every three years & when the new one came back I could no longer drive with the trailer on.
And the DVLA are a useless set of cretins- before renewing my last license they had changed the address on my records & sent the forms to the wrong house! When I realised I had to request the forms (at this point not realising they'd got the address wrong) and they sent the forms to the wrong address again- it was only the dilligence of our postman that meant I got them at all. So I filled out the forms, with my address, and they printed the letter & license with the wrong address again! I've given up ringing & writing to them about it & just hope it gets sorted when I renew next year, as it doesn't affect my entitlement to drive, it just means I can't use it as proof of address. You may have guessed that the DVLA are not my favourite people  (they're on the list just above the TV licensing bunch) they seem to have got much worse since just after Labour took over.
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| Rob R |
If you, hang on...
There seems to be no accountability for the legislation though to make sure it is actually worth the paper it's written on, I haven't noticed it raising any standards. |
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| KrisWW |
I might have a copy of that questionnaire kicking around somewhere - I didn't fill it in as I've only got five chooks, none of which are on the RBST list. With a little luck, I'll get to fill it in next time with chooks and sheep... I can but hope. I'll go mooch through the magazine files later.
And I've driven a tractor and fully loaded 44ft trailer, through small towns in middle England, and it was huge fun. Not least because of the panic on the faces of pedestrians and drivers alike when they saw a five foot nothing 20yo female behind the wheel of said tractor. |
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| tiggy |
dear Rob R it matters very much that rules and regulations are strangling the life out of farming . It is also a a ticking timebomb the way that the gene pool of domestic livestock is being limited by the loss of traditional breeds.All this seems to me a non farmer to be caused by the demands of the large retailers and the evil buerocrats in brussels and whitehall. we also suffer generally from rules and laws because idiots seem to breed faster than sane people. OK i admit it Im a grumpy old granny and too old to be PC but  even and very often just plain 
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| ariana |
It's totally insane isn't it! The minute our son passed his driving test (in 2007) he was legally allowed to drive any size of agricultural tractor with any load behind, (providing it is within the maximum length and width) and weighing up to 24 tonnes! How dangerous is that without any training whatsoever and yet he can tow little more than a matchbox on wheels behind the car 
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| Cathryn |
Any suggestions how to change some of this then? Small steps, something, anything? | ||||||
| Soapnutter |
With manic grin? 
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| Rob R |
Starting now by complaining (again) to the DVLA and continuing by not voting Labour at the next election. |
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| Ginkotree |
I think just by Being a downsizer is doing something and sharing what we do is raising awareness, so many people just do not have a clue. I have just had two woofers from america and thier local Mc donalds was shut for a while for upgrading. When it opened again the queue was 4 hours long down the freeway. They tell me of a resturant where the whole menu,even the icecream is artificial...Thats not to say that we can sit back and be chuffed with ourselves, but trying to stay on top of all the rules is stressful and sometimes downright depressing when you are breaking the law by feeding your family your own produce Why do we need a liscence to feed ourselves good food when parents can take thier kids to eat crap without breaking the law.Chick feed now £8 approx abag and going up. EXpensive eggs!But to give up and join the OTHERS just does not seem an option an option for me,I cant imagine any other way of being....we have to be inventive to live this life and while I can we will carry on | ||||||
| dottyspots |
LOL - yes, that's quite some picture! A friend of mine wants some goats, I'd love them to get some so I could visit and admire them (would make a change from chasing chickens out of their house). I don't know alot about keeping livestock, but she said the regs were a concern. I want her garden, mutter, mutter. The house next door to her is for sale (they only live round the corner from me), but I know in my heart of hearts that a garden that size would probably be chaos for me. |
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| RichardW |
Even crazier is that as a learner you can drive a tractor & trailer on the road. You do have a size & weight restriction on the trailer but its still much higher than you can drive at any time on a car & trailer test licence. Even as a 16 year old learner you can drive a tractor on the road on the way to & from a test center.
Richard |
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| dpack |
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| katie |
I've just picked up the latest 'Farmers Guardian' - you can probably hear the explosions of wrath coming from the Evesham direction....First there's an article on the possible 'headage' fee the government are considering making farmers pay for each animal they own. This would be to go towards funding a new animal health body which would take responsibility for animal health topics.(Apparently they had considered a slaughter tax - but then realised that not all farmers send stock to slaughter)
If this headage fee comes about, it will mean yet more form filling and declarations (and civil service jobs). - obviously farmers have too much free time at the moment. Next I read about the supermarkets bringing the price of milk down - apparently Tesco will cover the cost of their price reduction but farmers fear that it will lead to a price war at the worst time for dairy farmers.Great news for the consumer but yet again, not for the farmer! |
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| Rob R |
I picked up the paper last week to read that a friend, sheep farmer, had been found dead in a field with his shotgun at 6am on Monday morning. He was 27. | ||||||
| Jamanda |
That's incredibly sad. So sorry Rob. | ||||||
| KrisWW |
Rob, I'm so sorry to hear that.  That's awful.
It's all part of why I stopped reading the Farmers Weekly and Farmers Guardian once I no longer worked on farms. It was too damned depressing. After a while, I stopped watching Countryfile too, as that was becoming more townie oriented, and was also full of doom and gloom for the agricultural industry. You would have thought that agriculture, the process of producing food which as far as I recall is one of the main requirements of existence, would have been one of the few industries to flourish no matter what. Instead we've been taxed and tied up in red tape to the point that we can't function properly and every which way we turn, we're hitting our heads against brick walls and supermarket monopolies. </grump> |
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| dottyspots |
I'm really sorry too Rob. I'm not really *up* on farming, but I know that it is dire for many farmers (not just in the UK). | ||||||
| katie |
That's so sad, Rob. | ||||||
| Rob R |
It is indeed a great shame. | ||||||
| dpack |
sad and far too common
however hard it seems anything seems better when it is shared and worked out on a lighter note sometimes rules and regs overlook small scale methods in a foolish way but if they didnt who would prevent a large turkey farm importing h5n1 and brighter still there is still enthusiasm for farming as well as possible in a sustainable way with folk willing to develop new ways that do work to give good food ,a well managed landscape and earn enough to make the effort worthwhile |