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Bebo

12 bore or 20 bore?

Planning on taking up clay pigeon shooting, just applied for my shotgun certificate and I'm looking at guns. Having ended up with a bruised shoulder last time I used a 12 bore for around 40 shots, I was thinking that maybe I'd be better off with a 20 bore. Anyone got one or used one? Any opinions on whether its a good idea or not?
Ty Gwyn

I`ve had a 20 bore for many years,initally i bought it for my Son to use under my supervision,but as he got older,and now leads his own life,i use it when necessary.

Its only a single barrel Baikal,cheap and cheerful,but a nice light easily handled gun with nice balance,and plenty of power to drop a pig or a cow.
Treacodactyl

Did the 12 bore you used fit correctly, if it's too big or small it can cause more bruising. Do you have any clay grounds locally where you could try one of each?
Tavascarow

Never used a 20 bore always a 12, & never had a problem with bruising.
Never had a gun fitted.
I first started with my Dads old hammer side by side at 15 & bought a cheap over & under when I started work.
If you suffered bruising IMHO you where probably holding the gun wrong & stance to rigid.
Shooting clays with a 20 bore will need a lot more accuracy, as there's less lead in each load, so you will be at a disadvantage against other guns unless you're a crack shot.
I would try again but next time with a bit of instruction from a more experienced shot.
12Bore

vegplot

There's not an awful lot of difference in felt recoil between the two. 20 bores tend to be lighter and while they have a smaller cartridge the reduced gun weight makes it feel about the same as a 12 bore when fired - in general.

Poor gun fit is probably the reason you're getting a bruised shoulder, more so than the calibre of the gun.
Bebo

I would try again but next time with a bit of instruction from a more experienced shot.


It was at a lesson with a basc registered instructor where I got the bruise. I intend to pay for a gun fitting session before I buy anything as I don't really want to fork out around a grand for something that isn't right.

Good point about greater accuracy being needed, I'm far from a crack shot so a 12 bore is probably a better bet.
Bodger

The majority of cartridges made and used in the UK are 12 bore, which sees them being far cheaper to purchase than 20 bore cartridges. Its well worth you pricing them up before you decide which way to go.
Tavascarow

I would try again but next time with a bit of instruction from a more experienced shot.


It was at a lesson with a basc registered instructor where I got the bruise. I intend to pay for a gun fitting session before I buy anything as I don't really want to fork out around a grand for something that isn't right.

Good point about greater accuracy being needed, I'm far from a crack shot so a 12 bore is probably a better bet.
Despite that you where probably tensed up because you didn't know what to expect.
If the butt is tight to your shoulder & your body relaxed the recoil will pass through you, not into you.
A fitted gun will make you a better shot but one that doesn't fit, unless it's ridiculously out, shouldn't bruise your shoulder.
Colin & Jan

I use both a twelve and a twenty bore. Not a lot of difference in recoil, dependant on the cartridge. So many people put bigger cartridges through both calibres it's no wonder there are bruised shoulders.

If I was going to be shooting predominantly clays and not having to lug the gun around all day then a properly fitted over and under twelve bore with 24 or 28 gram cartridges would be the way to go.

I'm a side-by-side user but they have a tendancy to rise (think its called muzzle flip) on the first shot (especially with heavy cartridges) and novices can sometimes struggle to get a line on the bird with the second shot.
Bebo

Cheers for that. I was planning on an over and under. I used a Beretta Silver Pigeon for the lesson I had and I gather that they are considered a pretty good beginners gun. I'll get measured up for one and then see if I can pick one up second hand. Gervase

M-J has a Beretta 600 (very similar to the Silver pigeon) in 20-bore and it's a superb gun - very easy to shoot with and, to me, preferable to a 12-bore for most shooting. kirstyfern

Cheers for that. I was planning on an over and under. I used a Beretta Silver Pigeon for the lesson I had and I gather that they are considered a pretty good beginners gun. I'll get measured up for one and then see if I can pick one up second hand.

That's what I have, 12 bore. Lovely gun, but I got a skeet stock fitted as it is a bit heavier and therefore you get less recoil.

I find the lighter guns actually 'lift' more when you shoot them and this can cause bruising.
I shoot 21 or 24 gram cartridges.
I also have a 'shoulder pad.
AND I still bruise Wink

http://www.bushwear.co.uk/nostyles.php?ProductID=317237&ClassID=259'
smokingdragon

Look at a gas semi auto - Berretta 301 etc far less recoil than a OU. For a general purpose auto that can do clays foxes or burglars get one that is adjustable and can take 3.5" cartidges. I've got a Baikal MP153 and its superbly practical.
Simon
Ty Gwyn

Gun`s must have moved on faster than me,

I thought a Magnum 3in was the longest cartridge available.
Treacodactyl

Look at a gas semi auto - Berretta 301 etc far less recoil than a OU. For a general purpose auto that can do clays foxes or burglars get one that is adjustable and can take 3.5" cartidges. I've got a Baikal MP153 and its superbly practical.
Simon

Do you ever have any problems taking a sem-auto clay shooting?
Bebo

I've been told elsewhere that semi-auto's are ok for clays so long as you use a dummy cartridge with a little flag on to demonstrate that it not loaded. The are most definitely frowned upon for any game shoots. brightontrader

20 versus 12

The 20 actually can chuck up as much lead as a 12, I use 28gram loads in my over under browning 20. for clays I use a 30 inch trap 12 bore with 21 gram which has virtually no recoil in comparison as its heavy and absorbs.

A 20 is better gun to use if you are doing a walk up shoot, or basically going to carry it all day as mine for instance only weighs 5.5lbs against the trap 12s 9.2lbs. you notice the difference. Also a shorter barrel means its easier to get through heavy brush, across streams etc. A 20 is an "up country" gun.

I dropped a pidgeon today that must have been at 50 yds straight up with the 20. A 12 would have overbalanced me as I swung up and over probably.

Best solution is to buy both a 12 and a 20...
Bebo

You don't happen to be a gun seller do you? Smile

I'm going to be pretty much only shooting clays, so I'm 90% decided that I'm going to go for a 12 bore. Can't do anything until my certificate arrives though.
vegplot

I used to have a very nice single barrel 12 bore that was light enough to carry but heavy enough to deal with recoil. And being a crack shot Wink one barrel was always good enough. No good for clays though. Bebo

I used to have a very nice single barrel 12 bore that was light enough to carry but heavy enough to deal with recoil. And being a crack shot Wink one barrel was always good enough. No good for clays though.

I'll have you know last time I went shooting I hit two clays with one shot. Absolute fluke though and unlikely to ever happen again.
vegplot

Double vision Wink

I borrowed someones over and under for a shoot but the stock was too long me and I was bum firing the second barrel on the recoil of the first. I didn't realise what was happening at first thinking the recoil was a bit harsh and wondering why the second shot didn't.
brightontrader

not a gun dealer

but have a few guns as I am a farmer and run a small shoot, so have a few rifles too for pest control.

Thats why I posted earlier about Brown Bears views on 10/22s not being very good. In fact, with a trigger change, its my complete gun of choice for rabbits, and foxes as shotguns are basically useless for serious pest control.

I just saw this thread and felt compelled to comment as my browning 20 is my favorite shotgun. I really need to weld on a .22 and am sorted for walk up pest control.

(a 20 is not a trap gun though as cartridges are 30% more although same performance.)
Colin & Jan

I used to have a very nice single barrel 12 bore that was light enough to carry but heavy enough to deal with recoil. And being a crack shot Wink one barrel was always good enough. No good for clays though.

I'll have you know last time I went shooting I hit two clays with one shot. Absolute fluke though and unlikely to ever happen again.

Shot 2 rabbits with one shot from the .22 a couple of weeks ago. Aimed at one about 40 meters away, which I killed and my mate on the lamp said "good shot that must have been 80 meters or more". I hadn't even seen the one behind but both were stone dead. First one shot through the neck and the second through the chest.
dpack

back stop ? Shocked Bebo

Re: not a gun dealer

but have a few guns as I am a farmer and run a small shoot, so have a few rifles too for pest control.

Thats why I posted earlier about Brown Bears views on 10/22s not being very good. In fact, with a trigger change, its my complete gun of choice for rabbits, and foxes as shotguns are basically useless for serious pest control.

I just saw this thread and felt compelled to comment as my browning 20 is my favorite shotgun. I really need to weld on a .22 and am sorted for walk up pest control.

(a 20 is not a trap gun though as cartridges are 30% more although same performance.)

I was teasing. Thank you for the advice.

Our neighbour (also a farmer) usually deals with fox control for us with a rifle, as anything going after our chickens is likely to be going after his as well.

Is there any point shooting rabbits with a shotgun? I mean, is there anything left worth eating?
Bodger

I've shot hundreds of rabbits with a shotgun and they're OK to eat as long as you aren't right on top of them when you shoot them. There are some places where a .22 isn't suitable for shooting rabbits but where a shotgun is. A head shot bunny with a .22 is obviously less risky on the teeth though. Very Happy vegplot

Re: not a gun dealer



Is there any point shooting rabbits with a shotgun? I mean, is there anything left worth eating?

Not really. Shooting for the pot limits usable range and it's very difficult to moderate the noise of a shotgun for population control.
Colin & Jan

back stop ? Shocked

No problems as half way down the side of a small valley shooting down. Saying that there always the possibility of the unknown when using a rifle of any calibre, especially when using a lamp when the distance vision limited.
vegplot

back stop ? Shocked

No problems as half way down the side of a small valley shooting down. Saying that there always the possibility of the unknown when using a rifle of any calibre, especially when using a lamp when the distance vision limited.

The backstop was the second rabbit.
Colin & Jan

back stop ? Shocked

No problems as half way down the side of a small valley shooting down. Saying that there always the possibility of the unknown when using a rifle of any calibre, especially when using a lamp when the distance vision limited.

The backstop was the second rabbit.

That's what I meant to say!!
Nick

Could have been anything or anyone, tho, presumably? Colin & Jan

Could have been anything or anyone, tho, presumably?

There is always an element of the unknown when using a rifle, particulary at night with a filter to defuse the light. Vision is limited to 100m or so although you can pick out rabbits/foxes etc initially by the eyes.

I think the key is knowing the ground you are shooting over and where not to pull the trigger.
vegplot

There are some things best left unsaid.

A bit like the biker who showed off his speeding prowess on YouTube by filming his speedo during a 120mph stunt on a public road. It cost him his licence.
Pilgrim1975

May I present the Sicilian 'Lupara' for all your pest control needs?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lupara

'The Lupara: 8 out of 10 Mafiosi prefer it...'
Bebo

Deposit put down on a Berretta Silver Pigeon. 12 bore, 28 inch barrels. Can't get it yet as certificate hasn't arrived and they are sending it off to have the stock altered. Being a short-a*se, with short arms to match it's got to be taken down to 13 and a half inches.

The other half is getting a Browning, which the bloke in the shop called 'a big boys gun'. Much heavier than mine and with a much bigger stock. Perfect for him though as he's 6'4".
vegplot

A very good choice madam.

I've had to cut down the stocks on some of my rifles, they shoot so much better when fitted.
Bebo

Can't wait to get it. Even just having it around to practice holding it properly has got to help me shoot a bit better. So far I've been using guns that are too big for me. Bebo

Licence arrived while I was away. I can go and get my gun next week. Hooray! Jamanda

And then they'd better not hog all the seats on the South East rail network! Bebo

Commuters are safe, unless I can overhear Status Quo on their ipod. mousjoos

Ahhhh Status Quo...the perfect excuse for an urban massacre Bebo

First trip out with my new shotgun. It works. Pity I'm such a rubbish shot I can't hit a barn door at 20ft. Laughing 12Bore

Errm, why are you shooting at barn doors? Razz
Try aiming for the clays instead! Wink
vegplot

First trip out with my new shotgun. It works. Pity I'm such a rubbish shot I can't hit a barn door at 20ft. Laughing

Pratice in the street at car doors from 6 feet.
Bebo

After a couple of months and a bit more practice I'm actually hitting a few. Not many, but a few. I'm typically averaging a bit above 40%.

Got a few particular targets that I really struggle with though. Anyone know how to hit a battue? I just can't get them.
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