| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| marigold |
A month without plastic?http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508321.stmAnyone fancy a challenge? I do my best already, but still get through a lot of plastic packaging. I'm not even going to try to eliminate it completely, even for a month, but I am going to take this as another opportunity to try to do better. If I do a big supermarket shop of non-perishables I can avoid Tesco's for a while and get all my fruit and veg from the greengrocers on a weekly or twice-weekly basis. It's a change from how I usually shop, but hopefully do-able with a bit of planning. cab, IIRC I'm sure you'd win hands down on this challenge without changing your habits, so maybe you (and any other people who are already really low plastic users) could give the rest of us some more hints and tips  .
Here are my ideas: Use cloth shopping bags Buy fruit and veg from a greengrocer that provides paper bags Buy glass-bottled milk (not an option for me, sadly) |
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| dpack |
plastic is ace and should be treasured | ||||
| marigold |
not buried  .
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| Quail By Mail |
I've been a plastic hater for years. When I buy veg whether from my local green grocer or Sainsbury's or farmer's market I just pile in loose fruit and veg and take it to the counter. The checkout people don't mind and since I wash all fresh stuff anyway there's no problem there either. Part of the reason for buying certain products, ie, Duchy Original sausages, is that not only are they free range but they have the least packaging. I bake more often simply because I loathe the blister packs of packaged biscuits. I think the only plastic I tend to 'buy' is milk and the occasional Ribena bottle and then I recycle it. If I buy yogurt, I'll get a big one and then reuse it for taking soup to work, storing food or growing something in it. We have about one medium rubbish bag once every 3 weeks, and it's cornstarch.
Early on my business I sourced some degradable plastic mailer bags but I won't be ordering any more because I've been testing brown kraft paper and customers love it. I love brown kraft paper so much, it has become a company colour for Quail. |
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| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
I agree its very difficult to avoid.
I bulk buy staples which although do come in plastic bags, at least its only one large (reusable) bag for 5kg of rice not lots of little ones for the same quantity if I bought it from a supermarket I've just placed an Infinity order this week and I've ordered a quantity of paper bags to try out for kids lunch box packaging to save on plastic and foil I'm quite good on the no carrier bag collection front and have a good collection of resuable bags. We have glass milk and juice bottles here from the milkman so don't do too badly with that. like others I recycle or reuse plastic that we do get so only the little bags that have held things like meat or fish actually end up in the bin |
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| Belinda |
I try really hard to minimise plastics but even so, some does creep into the house - mainly on foods that the children like such as biscuits, though I do a lot of baking so minimise this where possible.
I have cloth shopping bags and a shopping trolley. Our local market packs in mainly paper bags. Our butcher has started using biodegradable bags. When I'm buying eg kitchen utensils, I go for ceramic, wood, enamel etc and avoid buying plastic kitchenware. I reuse margarine tubs etc endlessly for the freezer, and any plastic bags are recycled as bin liners. |
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| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
Would you have to be vegetarian for a month? How else can meat and fish be packed up. Even a local butcher is going to put it in a plastic bag | ||||
| Belinda |
Or cheese.
I bought some cheese from our local deli not long ago and was thrilled as it came wrapped in waxed paper rather than plastic. Then when I opened it, there was a sheet of plastic wrap as the inner layer......... |
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| Helen_A |
Saw a lady in Waitrose this afternoon with her own containers - she bought from the meat and cheese counters and they weighed her container and then added the meat or cheese to those. She put her lids on, they added the labels and off she went.
I don't know how it would go down in any other supermarket, but I bet a local butcher would be happy with that sort of thing? Helen_A |
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| wellington womble |
What a good idea! I also saw a fantasic washable sandwich wrapper the other day. I'll find out what it was called....... | ||||
| Quail By Mail |
I'm going to start doing that! I'll let you guys know how it goes down with the butchers/checkout. |
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| marigold |
http://forum.downsizer.net/about32211.html ? I'd never have thought about taking my own containers to shops  . It's always worth asking DS for ideas . Not sure that I have the nerve to actually do it myself though
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| jema |
Not trying to do a month without plastic, but we did at least refuse to buy mushrooms today as they were all in totally excessive packaging. | ||||
| wellington womble |
That's the thing, only not so pretty - I think they had camelflage patterned ones. |
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| Sarah D |
Find yourself some recycled net curtains, give them a wash amd make up your own fruit and veg bags; I use mine all the time now, bit of a conversation piec but everyone agress they are a good idea. Very easy to wash and dry, take up little room to store at home or whilst out shopping, and wash and dry in very little time.
I made a total of 8 in all: 
Made no sense to me to refuse palstic carrier bags only to have fruit and veg stuffed into plastic. |
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| Calli |
Oh I love this idea....charity shop withdrawal symptoms |
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| wellington womble |
That's a good use of nets (I hate nets!) My veg mostly comes from the box scheme, but they are very good with bags, mostly using paper or none at all. I expect they'd have a multitude of uses, though. | ||||
| Quail By Mail |
I don't think it will be that cringe-worthy. If my containers are clean and I don't look like a nutter and the butcher already knows I'm eco-oriented, then I'll just explain I'm refusing plastic from this point on, over the butcher counter. |
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| marigold |
Excellent idea Sarah. When I go to the greengrocer I try to use the paper bags they supply for mushrooms for everything that needs bagging (it's impractical not to bag a lot of things), but plastic is useful for dripping bunches of watercress. Still, I suppose I could take a sheet or two of newspaper for such things .
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| marigold |
Let us know how you get on!
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| cab |
Re: A month without plastic?
No, we're not totally plastic free. Milk is the biggie for us, always milk bottles in our recycling every week. We tend to have one junk food night per week, where we have pizza, and thats got wrapping on it too. And if I want to buy cream, say, its not clear how to get that in any container other than a plastic one. One thing I'd say that helps reduce packaging waste is that many plastic containers are way more robust than you'd think. Got a carrier bag full of soil from carrying spuds home? Rinse it in a bucket of rainwater from the butt before watering things, pin it on the line, use it for spuds again (theres one in our back hall now). Off to pick blackberries? Pack old plastic fruit punnets into your basket, they're ideal. Simply rinse under the tap and they're perfectly re-useable. |
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| cab |
I came across a Japanese idea a few years ago. Pack mushrooms in a more 'breathable' polyolefin wrapper (polymethylpentene, for the chemistry geeks here) in which microscopic holes have been manufactured for extra water penetration so the mushrooms don't get sweaty. Great idea. The plastic reinvention of paper 
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| cab |
Oh, and if you ARE buying fruit and veg in a supermarket, stand up for yourself at the tills. You know how it is, you take three onions to the checkout and the helpful assistant puts them in a plastic bag for you. Stop them, don't let them, its just stupid. | ||||
| gnasher |
I think avoiding plastic packaging is a good idea but plastic is not the problem here, it is the way it is disposed of.
As Cab, and others, are saying it is much better to reuse your plastic than to throw it away. (I have to confess to working in a museum specialising in design in plastic so feel I should defend it slightly). Its like the saying 'Guns don't kill people, people kill people' - you could say 'Plastic doesn't ruin the Earth, people chucking it in landfill ruin the Earth' - although that's not so catchy
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| mochyn |
I reuse plastic punnets to sell fruit to my neighbour who has an upmarket B&B. She now washes them out and gives them back!
As for cream: Rachel's dairy now do cream and Creme fraiche in cardboard tubs, although the lids are plastic. Their yoghurt cartons now have very thin plastic liners inside card outers. Milk bottles are now my biggest plastic intake. |
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| alisjs |
my biggest is milk bottles too.....have tried and (so far) failed to track down a milk man
polystyrene has the recyclable symbol on it.....anyone know where to take it? |
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| cab |
If you can find somewhere local to buy refills of cleaning products, so you turn up with the bottles and dispense into them, then that saves heaps of plastic. I can't remember last time we got toilet cleaner, washing up liquid, fabric softener or laundry liquid in a new bottle. But we're lucky, we've got a place for refills within walking distance.
Confused them on Saturday by asking whether I could turn up with my big plastic tub to get flour refills rather than having to buy 5kg in a plastic bag. They get it per sack and weight it into smaller batches, which although its in alledgedly biodegradable packaging I can't in any of my composters get the bloody stuff to degrade. After some umming and ahhing they said yes 
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| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
www.findmeamilkman.net any good? |
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| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
I've a feeling I've asked this before but am I right in thinking that cellophane bags are compostable?
When I ordered my paper bags from Infinity I noticed they did cellophane bags as well. |
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| gnasher |
Mrs F Cellophane is not compostable - it would have to be something made of corn starch or some such. | ||||
| cab |
If its proper old fashioned cellophane then yes, but such material is quite rare, most modern 'cellophane' isn't. Edit: Interesting stuff, cellophane: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellophane |
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| Sarah D |
Mi here in waxed cartons; they get re-used when I need them - soap moulds, soup and stock for freezer, etc, or plant pots, otheise burned in Rayburn.
Cab hit the nail on the head - stand up for yourself in shops - tell them you don't want a plastic bag. If they really insist, just take your stuff out again and leave the bag. I've been doing this for years now, and it is getting more "acceptable" and seen as less rebellious than it was once considered. I wouldn't really agree that disposing of the plastic is necessarily the biggest problem - it's the using of the plastic in the first place, the manufacturing of it and the processes and components it is made of. Refuse plastic. |
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| Fee |
I've never heard of that, what's it called, so I can do a search? |
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| cab |
Its all of those things really. I'm not opposed to getting the odd bit of plastic, and I'll re-use and faff about with as much of it as I need. Just built a cover to make an outside recycling box cubby out of a fly-tipped bit of cot and a plastic tarpaulin thats been festering in a corner of the garden for years
I find that the best solution is to have only as much plastic as I need. I don't need loads of placcy bags, but you know, having one or two stuffed into the side compartments of my rucksack, that can be bloody handy. I don't need loads of punnets, but I stack them inside each other and use them over, and over, and over. But whenever you're out and buy something, turn your head while you're at the till and you'll find that the pencil you've bought is in a plastic bag, or the newspaper is wrapped in plastic. Just take it out, thank the shop assistant, smile, and leave with the goods you've paid for. Unless, of course, your plastic bag has worn out and its time for a new one...
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| cab |
Its the Ecover range that I can refill at the local shop, Daily Bread (on Kings Hedges road, for people who know the 'rough end' of Cambridge). |
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| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
some local wholefood shops do it - the privately owned ones not the chains. Places like www.greenshop.co.uk etc if you turn up in person. Also wigglywigglers do something similar www.wigglywigglers.co.uk with a refil scheme. Of course even just buying a 5litre thing of laundry or washing up liquid and decanting it out in to own containers saves some plastic |
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| Sarah D |
Most health food shops now do the refills. If they don't, then ask them to start, orchange your healthfood shop!! | ||||
| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
Tis interesting stuff. So I'd need to find out if their 'cellophane' really is cellophane |
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| Fee |
Well, I never knew that! There's a search on the Ecover site to find your nearest place to do it. Bonus, there's one in the same town as the farmers market! It's about 10 miles away, but I can hit several birds with one stone heading over there every now and then. Cheers cab
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| cab |
Heck, finding that they've got a website telling you where your nearest participant is, where you can get refills... Good going Fee, that'll be a hit
Mods/Admin? Any of you reading this? Can you take that link and put it somewhere prominent where it won't be lost (a sticky or in links section maybe)? |
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| marigold |
I do reuse as much as I can:
junk mail wrappers in place of bought plastic bags (just realised they could be used for greengrocery shopping too - better than new bags, not as good as no bag or paper bag) plastic cartons as freezer containers, for sewing bits and bobs, as plant pot drip trays, for growing cress, for sorting jigsaw puzzle bits into carrier bags are used many times, then become bin bags detergent bottles become plant labels, though I'm changing from using liquid to laundry tablets which come in a cardboard box with just a little plastic wrapping round pairs of tablets. For hot washes I use homemade laundry stuff - soapflakes, borax, washing soda - when I remember plastic bottles go in the coucil recycling box but it's always worth having another think about habits and getting new ideas from other people .
I agree we'd be stuffed without plastic and it's a wonderful material, but surely the less we use the better? |
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| marigold |
I've never had a problem with saying "I don't need a bag, thank you" to shop assistants - I just say so as soon as they start to reach for a bag. Round here in a lot of shops the assistants now ask if you want a bag, or you actually have to ask if you happen to want one . It's not just independent shops either - my nearest W H Smith is really stingy with bags nowadays.
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| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
my paper bags arrived today. Good stout brown bags too and not a bad size. Wondering whether to put a few in my shopping bag to try out in the farm shop?
Or actually since they have a suggestion box I might well put a note in there about them changing to paper bags perhaps for more of their stuff - it could work out cheaper for them if we all refused even the little bags for things |
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| Sarah D |
The farm shop I use has both used carriers and paper bags on offer. I don't use either, though. When I do buy fruit and veg there, I weigh it out and it all goes into a shopping bag, so no extra bags needed, or I use my netty ones. Sort it when I get home. | ||||
| marigold |
Christine Jeavons is blogging her month without plastic:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/monthwithoutplastic/ Some interesting stuff in there, e.g.
It's not easy being green! A recent Colour it Green blog post about pre-consumer waste is also thought-provoking: http://colouritgreen.wordpress.com/2008/08/03/throw-away-society/ |
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| Azura Skye |
A month without plastic is a right ol' challenge.
I watched the vid from that BBC link - what does the man in the suit mean by saying that refusing to buy plastic wrapped items is going against plastic recycling? Or something like that - some negative comment on not consuming plastic? (I watched the other day so I've forgotten what he said exactly :p) I guess you'd have to be much more organized in buying veg in bulk (plastic free) and making sure your garden was doing well and being productive. I guess no shampoo is my one no plastic thing I've done for a while : ) I always have a backpack so don't use plastic bags (but do sometimes :/ I have three roadkill bunnies in the freezer right now, so the ferrets don't need any catfood in plastic sachets for a while. but generally tricky tricky tricky |
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| wellington womble |
I can't imagine a month without plastic. I might open my eyes and see how it goes. Is it not using it, or not acquiring any new stuff? I might see what the issues are in August, and try in September - I'm not good at doing things with no planning! | ||||
| Quail By Mail |
Spot on Sarah D. |
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| colour it green |
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| colour it green |
the co-op have signs up suggesting you dont need a bag to put fruit and veg in. i dont.. i take it loose to the till and then put it in my cloth bag loose. no problem... - of course.. the produce is likely to have arrived to the shop in lots of packaging.. we are collecting lots of blue plastic veg boxes the greengrocer throws out... best all round to grow your own. not always practical.. but where you can... |
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| Quail By Mail |
Right!
I went to my butchers today (I'm semi friendly with him, he knows I'm eco) with my plastic tub thingy and said that I'd like some free range organic chicken thighs and to put them in my tub. No problem! No sideways glances, no whys etc. He did say, "I don't have a problem with that. My son's been telling me all about plastic from his lessons at school. It is horrible and we just ought to get out of this vicious circle." And then we had a conversation about him being a third generation butcher and wrapping meat in brown paper in the old days. I asked him if he would start asking customers if they wanted a carrier bag. He said he'd been practicing it for over a year now. Result! |
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| bagpuss |
The resuable sandwich wrappers someone was looking for at these
http://www.wrap-n-mat.co.uk/ |
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| Rosemary Judy |
I took plastic boxes to the supermarket, last week, and the nice man behind the meat and fish counter put my fish straight into my box....... and three ladies behind me said 'ohhh good idea !'
It is incredibly hard, not to buy plastic. |