| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| cab |
Ads on forum?I'm not getting the 'ethical ads' on the forum now, just on the front page. Whats happened? |
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| colour it green |
I can see em... | ||||
| cab |
I'm getting the 'downsizer traders' ones.
But I haven't seen a 'powered by ethical ads' today. |
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| colour it green |
oh i see - yes you are right only downsizers. | ||||
| sean |
You still get the EJ ones but they're much reduced in frequency. I think we were in danger of bankrupting them at the higher display rate. | ||||
| Jonnyboy |
IIRC we've dropped the rotation so you see more downsizer ads and less EJ ones. | ||||
| Green Rosie |
I'm happier with that 
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| sean |
We're trying to run the non-downsizer ads at a rate that's as low as possible consistent with covering our costs. If we get to a point where there's a steady surplus we'll try to find a good use for it, prolly some sort of micro-credit scheme or the like. | ||||
| jema |
I really like the "micro credit" idea. It is a use for the money that is both consistent with any surplus going into a good cause as well as with covering our arses as the money is technically just on loan. | ||||
| colour it green |
makes sense - tbh I had nto noticed any change.. as I have only ever clicked on downsizer ones - not really taken the others in... |
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| cab |
That makes sense of it, ta. |
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| cab |
Part of what was discussed in open forum in the run up to the trial was the alternative suggestion of taking google ads. If we're raking in more money to the site than can be sustained from Ethical Trader, it seems likely that (1) people like clicking on different ads to see what they are, and (2) more money could be brought in to build up a war chest for the micro-credit scheme and other projects by also adding google ads. If we've cut, say, seven parts of the ads from ethical trader (or whatever proportion), could that proportion be replaced with google ads, to maintain interest in the ads and also to bring in funds to get the other schemes going? |
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| Brownbear |
After the first day or so I sort of screened them out of my consciousness. | ||||
| jema |
There is a clear difference of opinion on whether we should try and have just enough adverts to comfortably tick over, or a level of adverts that is still non intrusive and gives our own advertizers a very good slice of things, but does include google adverts. The latter opinion which I hold is that if we can get money without detracting from the site, then we should. Money can always find a good outlet. Perhaps the micro-credit perhaps some means of re-advertising our own traders... who knows but money gives the option and you know we are committed to being a non profit volunteer based site and the money will not be going to anyone here. |
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| Brownbear |
Get your bunnies killed by
BROWNBEAR!!!! |
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| dpack |
if only you were closer | ||||
| cab |
I see a lot of sense in what you're saying. As the problem with ethical ads is that Downsizer is sending too much business their way, do you plan to explore google ads too now? |
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| gil |
AFAIK, not at the moment.
To have both Ethical Ads and Google ads would be a bit much |
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| cab |
It would be if ethical ads were still appearing at the rate they were, but as they're appearing less now, surely if google ads merely appeared at such a rate as to make up for that without affecting Downsizer traders... Wouldn't it be just the same? Or do you mean it would be a bit much getting such a thing to work? |
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| gil |
More that having ads from multiple sources would be a bit much, in terms of the 'look', and the impression given (of trying to maximise ad revenue, when that's not what we're about on Downsizer) | ||||
| jema |
Do people really count the ad sources?
If we have a large proportion of our own traders adverts a few EJ adverts and some context sensitive google ones picking out relevant ads to the topics I expect most people will just find the site a tad more interesting and not get round to noticing that we have the nerve to use two advertising systems or three counting our own. |
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| cab |
I think that ads on websites like this one are now so nearly ubiquitous that few people would be shocked to see google ads appear. It would add some interest, and I suspect make people pay more attention to the ad corner (which might drift again now that ethical ads has been de-prioritised rather). | ||||
| vegplot |
I like the beauty and independance of DS. Ad words would only detract from that. Depends on what your remit is. I say 'your' becuase although I'm part of DS yet I don't think feel I have any ownership.
War chest? What are we fighting except ignorance? |
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| jema |
If we have money to put into micro credit, or into other ethical ventures it is a war chest, albeit an empty one  We don't want a chest full, but a chest spent would be good.
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| dpack |
umm ,stick it in the bag 
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| Treacodactyl |
I think many people also feel that way. As an author I wouldn't be too keen for something like my chicken articles to show adverts advertising cheap chicken products or whatever. I admit I'm not keen on advertising anyway, at least the downsizer traders are vetted and there is some come back. As for filtering I'm not sure how well that would work, even the ethical ads are showing links to things I'm not that keen on. |
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| cab |
With regard to vetting, sites allowed to advertise here are allowed to use google ads. It isn't something that has been treated as unethical, so there is no evident inconsistency in having them here. As some of the products that came in through ethical trader are for traders who may otherwise struggle to get through the Downsizer vetting process (some have, I think, been borderline), and as ads are labelled as to where they come from, I think Jema is pretty much right. |
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| cab |
The beauty of funding a site through advertising rather than donation or charity (one or two people paying for it, as we had in the early days) is that it retains independence in a way that it otherwise may not. |
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| Treacodactyl |
I don't really understand that point. We're talking about what this site shows not what other sites show.
Which shows a problem with the current set-up. With google ads you'd have traders who would fail our vetting, ethical traders vetting but would still be shown via google - what's the point of vetting? |
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| jema |
I think our readers are savvy enough to see the difference between DS approved ads and revenue generating ads from a third party like google or ethical junction.
Pragmatically advertising keeps us going and allows us to do things and helps retain full independence in a way donations do not. I guess we will always have an argument on this, as of course we can all see the down side of advertising. |
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| bodger |
I find it really nice when you go onto a forum and there aren't any adverts at all. A refreshing change to not have people constantly trying to flog you something. 
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| Treacodactyl |
As I understand it the site's running costs are covered by the existing arrangement. Google ads would be to raise money for new activities. Google ads work by people noticing the advert and clicking through to the site so people must notice them in order for the site to get money. | ||||
| bodger |
Other sites run without this constant barrage of adverts. Owners and or members of the site actually chipping in to keep them advert free zones. | ||||
| cab |
If a site using google ads has been vetted by our trader vetting group, then it would be hard to justify that google ads would be unethical for downsizer, at least it would be hard to justify that stance with no implication that our vetting process allows the wrong things through. I don't think the latter point is true.
The vetting process allows free ads here for members who meet what is quite a high standard. Its the point of the place. Paid ads provide security to allow that to continue and could contribute to further projects as hinted at by Jema and Sean. With Google ads we would have traders who would fail our vetting... But arguably we're getting that with ethical trader too. So if we're allowing ethical trader, I'm curious to know why we'd veto taking up some of the slack left by reducing the rate of those ads with google ads. |
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| cab |
Theres no such thing as a free lunch; start funding the site purely from payments and donations and you run into different issues, as Jema hinted at. I'd hardly say that we're barraged with ads here though. |
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| jema |
A small advert in the top right corner is not a "barrage" of adverts and whatever happens there is no intention to increase the size of the advert space.
I always found the google ads to have useful links on them. I thought they were a good addition to the site. If we were not being paid for them I'd still want them. |
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| cab |
I like the randomness of them; they bring in things I otherwise would never go looking for them. So on sites where I encounter such ads, I like them. |
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| vegplot |
Sites which carry advertising are tied to those who advertise. Independance is lost if advertiser pressures the host to have content which they deem beneficial to them. This can happen when a significant part revenue stream is from a single advertiser and the host needs their money to survive. Yo might be right, if we're talking about the low levels of advertising revenue (I assume) that DS is generating, but be wary of going down that route. |
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| cab |
If it was a single advertiser or a couple of influential advertisers I'd agree. Google ads doesn't work that way though; multiple (effectively almost limitless) numbers of potential advertisers working through a single portal, none of them individually have that great an influence. |
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| Jamanda |
Could you explain what your sig is about at the moment please Bodger. If it is in fact, an ad for calendars, perhaps it should have gone through the vetting committee. |
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| Cathryn |
No, he's advertising his forum isn't he? 
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| Silas |
To be fair he did explain what this was about a few days ago.
http://forum.downsizer.net/viewtopic.php?p=659869&highlight=#659869 Good luck with it Bodger. |
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| bodger |
You are the one who needs vetting. I did actually asked permission before putting it on. If you'd care to follow the link you'd see that it hardly rates as an advert. Would you care to explain why you are the only one to raise this matter ? I'm disappointed in your attitude but not suprised. You are a mod, why not PM me if you were at all are uncertain ? |
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| Jamanda |
I don't have a problem with it. It's a wonderful idea. But it is an ad. | ||||
| Cathryn |
If you are unhappy about a site using ads, then you are free not to use it. We have all discussed this long and hard and did not take this step lightly.
The site continues to run on goodwill and generosity but it needs just a bit of cash as well. |
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| Silas |
Love this "If you don't like it, bu**er off" attitude. Great stuff. |
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| cab |
Its also just a pretty unobtrusive line of text that has nothing really to do with the topic under discussion; this is a needless aside that risks detracting from the topic, can we let it go now please? |
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| cab |
Hence why I asked the question, i.e. where had the paid ads gone. Of course the site hasto be paid for. |