| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| ksia |
Advice for scythe buyer pleaseHi. I'm thinking of getting "The Cautious Beginner's Set" from:http://www.thescytheshop.co.uk/index.html Any comments from any scythers out there would be most welcome. I've got a lawn and large meadow to do and am a complete beginner. Ta. |
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| Chez |
Gil is your scything person and she recommends Simon Fairlie. | ||||
| vegplot |
I can't remember which blade I bought but the Austrian scythes are very good. Light, easy to use and adjustable. | ||||
| gil |
Cautious Beginners Set will be fine.
Peening jig will serve you well, together with two sharpening stones. I didn;t peen at all for the first year I was mowing, and the blade was fine - just needed ever more freqent honing. Peening was a revelation. As long as your meadow and lawn are not stony, and fairly level or evenly sloping, I'd go for the 60cm standard Austrian grass blade. My first blade was a 60cm Stone blade, as I have uneven stony ground, and also mow an orchard on a slope with old tree stumps. Nice to see another Downsizer getting into scythes 
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| earthyvirgo |
After the skill sharing do last year and Gil's demo, I would never strim again. Scything (once you've got into the rhythm) is so therapeutic and effective.
In fact Gil, I was thinking about you the other day while I was reading Anna Karenina - there's a beautiful couple of pages where Levin and his workers mow from dawn till dusk. Stunning description of how one old worker, is so dextrous with his scythe, that he can pick up mushrooms with the tip of the blade!. Poetic stuff EV |
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| ksia |
Thanks for the answers. I'm looking forward to it. | ||||
| gil |
@ ksia : how tall are you ? If you are 6' or over, and quite broad, you could probably manage a 75cm blade to start. Though it really doesn't make a huge amount of difference : the longer the blade, the deeper [going forwards] the swathe you can cut, but less width [side to side] to it. You can also lean from side to side to get a wider swathe, as you improve.
My second blade was a 55cm Ditch blade [for even tougher work], so shorter than the one I started with, but better for confined spaces. I've mown with a 70/75cm grass blade, which was good too. And with a 110 cm competition grass blade, which was scary, as it quivers if you haven't enough strength to hold it steady 
There's a thread somewhere about what kinds of blade people use. Will try to find it. Here it is |
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| vegplot |
I tend to scythe just a small patch of not very tall grass. I'd love to have a go at a field of hay or wheat. Gervase's recent video post was just awe inspiring. | ||||
| gil |
Come to the West Country Scythe Fest : really flat, stone-free hay meadow left to grow especially for the event / workshops. It'll change your view of mowing.
You don't necessarily need to have a scythe of your own : there are 'training kits' to borrow. |
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| Calli |
Have too many blisters from over enthusiasm 
Yes I did wear gloves 
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| ksia |
More in the region of 'shortasre'. 5ft 6" and stocky. |
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| vegplot |
You're still taller than me. |
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| Treacodactyl |
I'm also considering using a scythe rather than strimming but for grass and scrub clearance around trees. Looking at the scythe shop it looks like a choice between a ditch blade or a bush blade for heavy duty weeds and brambles, would a ditch blade cope with brambles? I would also consider a shortish grass blade, would 60cm be a reasonable choice for trimming around trees?
As for the snath, if I went for a size 2 which says it can cope with people from 5' 1" to 5' 11" would that be usable for someone 5'11" or would the next size up be better? |
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| bring me sunshine |
I too am a total beginner at this, currently deciding between a strimmer or a scythe. I hate strimming, mainly due to the noise. However, I know how to strim, never seen a scythe in real life, let alone handled one, much yet set about topping a 3 acre field...
Said field is a mix of grass, himalayn balsam, bracken, brambles, nettles and other plants. I'm 5'2 and am strong enough to move my 8'x6' pig arks on my own: I assume this means I will eventually get the hang of using a scythe?! Where do I start looking and what on earth should I be looking for? Thanks to ksia for starting this thread 
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| vegplot |
I have two blade for my Austrian a 45cm and 70cm. The 45cm is great for thick stemmed plants such as brambles but be wary of hidden stones/rocks or metal work which can dink the blade. The 70cm is better suited to larger areas of grass (hay and straw) but can be used in tightish areas as well. If you want to cut lawn a longer blade maybe better. These two blades cope with my limited scything needs. | ||||
| bring me sunshine |
Thanks, vegplot. I make hay, but it's more a case of cut it, turn it, stuff it in a pig ark a few days later, and it doesn't take much effort to do that with shears. My main activity will be my one-woman protest against the evils of the 3 Bs: balsam, bracken and brambles. The 45cm sounds about right, will do some more reading tomorrow. | ||||
| gil |
Strength is not really the issue with using a scythe : 60% of the work is done by the blade [keeping it sharp and in good nick is key]; 30% by the waist/hip swing [so women I reckon have some advantage over men]; and only 10% is in the arms and shoulders.
I reckon you'd need a stone or a ditch blade for your field, BMS. I find scything easier than strimming. Once you get into it, it is almost, or as fast as a strimmer. And if you only want to top and not to mow right to the ground, scythe is deffo easier. 3 acres might take a while, though..... but if you'd strim that area, you could scythe it. There are scythe users in Wales, and courses [at a permaculture project near Cardigan, possibly elsewhere also] |
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| bring me sunshine |
Thanks, Gil, very helpful
So that's a 45cm stone blade. Great stuff. How easy is it to take care of the blade? |
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| gil |
Also, in response to vegplot's suggestions re length of blade - if you've got 3 acres, I suggest a longer blade. I've got a 55cm ditch blade [for rough ground and orchard work], but you can get a 65cm too. And I've got a 60cm stone blade for general use [which is the longest in that model]
Both of these are more resistant to craashing into stuff than a grass or Turk blade |
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| gil |
Blade work is crucial. I used sharpening / whetstones only for the first year. But you will soon need to learn to peen [cold forge] using either a peening jig or an anvil.
It really helps if you see someone doing it, or are shown how to. The booklets you get with a scythe kit are useful, and there is footage of peening on Youtube now [US clips, but using Austrian scythes], but not really explanation. And it's not the way I do it, but everyone developes their own style of working the metal. I'm happy to help / explain, on or offline, phone, etc. |
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| ksia |
Ditto gil on scythes over strimmers. I so wished I'd never bought a strimmer.
Can't give any more detailed advice as I'm still using a borrowed scythe - my new one is on its way. And I'm still learning. Would add: scything early morning is easiest. Sharpening is key. Don't wipe off the grass with an ungloved finger (blood everywhere!) |
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| vegplot |
Couldn't agree more. |
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| Midland Spinner |
Thank you everyone for talking about scythes.
Every year we think: we could scythe the orchard in stead of mowing it. Then we wait too long, it gets flattened by rain, etc and we chicken out of using the scythe. This year, encouraged by the chat on here, I resolved to actually use the scythe we have had for years. Went out this morning first thing and have cut about a fifth of the long grass in the orchard. I was back indoors and heading for my desk by 9am. A great way to start the day. More tomorrow, possibly. |
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| colindd |
I bought a sycthe from Simon Fairlie about 5 years ago. Not touched a strimmer or lawnmower since - why put up with the roaring whine and rattle when it's easier and quieter with a scythe? I've had no training, but as Gil says it's not really a matter of strength. I found little and constant practice helps - don't try to do too much at once.
I've just scythed a friends paddock where 1/4 acre of spear thistle was taking over. Cutting this with a 45cm bush blade was wholly satisfying. I use the 'standard' 60cm blade that Simon supplies for our garden and that handles grass and light weeds very nicely. As for a demonstration of scything, try viewing the movie on Peter Vido's site. It's astonishing. http://www.scytheconnection.com/adp/video/index.html Colin |
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| gil |
Hi Colindd, and welcome to Downsizer . Always good to meet more folk with scythes !
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| bring me sunshine |
I just want to say a massive thank you to everyone who's been promoting the use of scythes. My friends who own the field I use decided to get one for all of us to use and what can I say? Bloomin marvellous! I was amazed by how easy the scythe was to use, and how quickly I was able to work. In just a couple of afternoons, I managed to clear about two acres that was hidden below every type of weed you can imagine and I thoroughly enjoyed myself.
So, if you're even vaguely thinking that you'd prefer the peace and quiet of a scythe, do it! You won't regret it for a moment. |
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| gil |
Oh that's an excellent result !
What kind/length of blade did you choose in the end, BMS ? Useful for folk on here to exchange info about what worked well for them in a particular context of use. And as ColinDD pointed out above, you can have more than one blade, for different purposes. |
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| Ecocentric |
As a newbie scyther, I was just getting the scythe to sing when my 60cms stone blade found a chunk of stock fence left by previous owners part buried in the undergrowth.  Not quite so quiet and peaceful at that point  Having some difficulty sourcing a suitably heavy Warrington pattern hammer to fettle a repair. Im now making more effort to check there is nothing potentially deleterious in the grass/weedgrowth but this does mean trampling it down a lot making it more difficult to scythe. At least I know it will be "clean" in future.
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| vegplot |
Axminster do a 16oz one for £7+
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-Warrington-Pattern-Cross-Pein-Hammers-19604.htm |
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| Ecocentric |
Thanks. I think that is the same size as a local supplier is getting in for approval. Pains me to think that I am sure I had at least one slightly larger Warrington head amongst the "junk" I jettisoned when we moved here last year. | ||||
| gil |
@ ecocentric : how badly damaged is the blade ? Nicked / torn / bent ? | ||||
| Ecocentric |
gil - edge turned up over 25-30mm and at least one major tear perpendicular to edge extending 5-6mm. Previously had a smaller nick which I repaired by filing (per Vido's chapter in The Scythe Book) but I only have bar anvil and could not get the hang of trying to peen out the damaged area "upside down". When I get a decent weight Warrington, hopefully I will be able to see the strike positions more clearly working right way up on a flat anvil (face of club hammer) | ||||
| gil |
Ouch ! Agree that a flat anvil and bar peen hammer is what you'll need to see properly what you're doing to repair the blade. Best of luck. Please let us know how you get on. |
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| bring me sunshine |
I didn't buy it so I'm not sure of the details. It's 55cm, I know that much. It's got a "hook" at the end of the blade, not sure exactly what type it is. It cuts cleanly and smoothly through everything except bindweed, not sure why! |
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| ninat |
How heavy is a scythe with its blade on. I've been watching the videos on Utube of the children scything and have been really impressed.
OH still has his heart set on a rough mower but am toying with a scythe for myself. The ideaof learning a new skill is very appealing. Problem is that I can't do heavy work. My max is 20-30 mins digging. Would I be able to use a scythe if I got the technique right? |
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| gil |
Just put mine on the kitchen scales. My spare blade weighs about 1lb, and the snath [handle] and blade assembled weighs about 4lb.
So it is very, very light. As others have suggested on this thread, you could do 20-30 mins a day, and make quite a bit of headway against your grass and scrub. Less effort than digging, I think. Keeping it sharp + thinking about correct body posture >>> economy of effort. Plus, you'll be stopping to sharpen the blade every 5-10 mins anyway, which builds in rest time. On the other hand, I find raking up and barrowing the cut grass away quite heavy going, but I only have a heavy old wheelbarrow and a garden rake.... |
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| Ecocentric |
I recently bought am all-wooden grass rake - 3 feet wide with peg type teeth. Weighs about the same as my Austrian scythe and was about half the weight of a similar sized ali headed one. The rounded teeth are less likely to snag in the thatch making raking into piles a doddle. I then use a four pronged manure fork (pitchfork style) to load barrow. I am on the lookout for one of those split ash "trident" grass forks. May have to learn how to fettle one. A standard barrow can be hard going over rough grass. If you do not need to cart over concrete or other paving, consider a "hay sled" - quite large ones used to be horse drawn. A smaller one but still capable of carrying 3-4 barrow loads could easily be "towed" by hand. Easy to load as the bed is only just above ground level. |
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| bring me sunshine |
Last year, we got a plastic barrow and it's so light, it's scary. I like the idea of the hay sled, though. |