| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| Brownbear |
Antivirus subscriptionThe Norton 360 renewal is due - I've been wondering if there are better programmes out there. Any advice or suggestions? |
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| sean |
Get AVG free and adaware. They're free and seem to offer perfectly adequate functionality to me. | ||||||
| jocorless |
Like Sean says - get rid of Norton - Horrible invasive program that it is but make sure you do it properly by using the Norton Removal Tool otherwise you'll suddenly find you can't connect to the internet!
http://service1.symantec.com/Support/tsgeninfo.nsf/docid/2005033108162039 Then get yourself a copy of AVG 8.0 Free http://free.grisoft.com/ww.download?prd=afe And a copy of adaware http://lavasoft.com/products/ad_aware_free.php And thats all you really need to worry about - at no cost to you |
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| Chez |
What the others said. | ||||||
| dpack |
you may develop it skills removing norton
horrible stuff i use avast ,it works |
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| vegplot |
Reviews such as this are useful in helping you make your decision.
http://anti-virus-software-review.toptenreviews.com/ |
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| Talbot |
i have used ESET Nod 32 for the last 2 years and have found it to be really solid in its performance. it is what i recommend to friends, family and clients.
T |
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| Barefoot Andrew |
What Sean & Jo said.
A. |
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| gil |
AVG here too. | ||||||
| Brownbear |
Well, I've downloaded all the bits, so I'm going to disconnect, remoce Norton, then load up the other bits. If it all works OK I'll be back soon.
I started to get really sick of the Norton nagware that wanted my payment a month in advance. Then there's the cost for three machines in the house. Then there's the errors that keep popping up all over the place, and it really seems to slow the computer down. So, off, on, then a defrag. |
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| Chez |
Best of luck 
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| jema |
All AV software is going to be a performance hit, and no AV software gives anywhere near 100% protection.
If you are doing one dodgy action a week, and the protection is 90% effective then the chance is 75% that you will be infected in 3 months! |
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| Chez |
What do you class as a dodgy action? (Sounds like I'm taking the ****, but I'm not). | ||||||
| vegplot |
The Internet is a dirty place, ridden with disease and horrors beyond imagination. Any action is potentially dodgy these days. | ||||||
| Chez |
Gosh  . Good job I'm wearing my trusty tin foil hat whilst surfing!
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| Rob R |
And that's just the people. 
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| Brownbear |
Blinkin' 'eck, I've got rid of norton, and the PC is running as fast as when I built it.
Thanks for the advice, good people. |
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| vegplot |
You've survived then! |
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| vegplot |
I won't start to describe some of the people we used to connect to the Internet by personally setting up their machines for them (in the good bad days when 14.4kbps was considered fast). There were places I would stand rather than sit and politely refuse the cups of tea and coffee ignoring the page 3 pin up mouse mats. We stopped providing that service after a year or so. |
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| jema |
1. Opening an attachment to an email. Apart from a few safe types.Regardless of who sent the email. 2. Accepting any form of installation from a web page that there is no solidly good reason to trust. 3. Not running daily windows updates. 4. Letting anyone on your PC who might install something. Seen it happen at parties, with grandkids... |
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| Marionb |
My Norton subscription ran out sometime early this year... still havent got round to renewing it yet. Laptop is fine but we are getting popups on the PC which are jolly annoying.
Will the AVG and Adaware stop these popups and do everything Norton does? I've had no problems with Norton although I'm aware a lot of people dont think much of it. |
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| Rob R |
*looks both ways & slowly turns over the mouse mat* |
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| Chez |
Okay, that's fine! I was thinking there was something I wasn't doing  .
Marion: Yes, in short. I'd install them ASAP - it's pretty suicidal to be running without a virus checker and a firewall - I run ZoneAlarm in addition to the other two. It's not the things you notice, but the ones you don't. You do need to uninstall Norton first, using the tool mentioned upthread, though. |
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| jema |
I run windows without AV or a firewall, always have done, never had a problem.
Okay I have a router that acts as a firewall, and I would strongly recommend a firewall, as there may yet be another net exploit that needs firewall defense. But seriously even without a firewall there should be no holes in windows that can be exploited by the malware a firewall protects you from. AV software as I have explained is only 90% effective or thereabouts, so arguable if you trust it gives you security and that encourages any laxness in what you do on the net, then it is increasing the risk you PC will be infected and hence not protecting you at all. |
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| Chez |
I hear what you're saying jema - but you're one of the 'Immortals' - an experienced, technical user. Many ordinary users don't have the body of experience or know-how to remember to be cautious all the time and a good AV and firewall, whatever it's flaws, will save them a lot of bother. | ||||||
| jema |
Depends on how you read the psychology.
My rule is a simple NO don't do a few things EVER. No ifs no buts. With AV are people tempted to be a bit more casual and thus more vulnerable? |
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| vegplot |
I agree with Jema on this. AV can make one lax and therefore more prone to infection than someone who has AV and is more lax thinking they're safe. Some dozen or so new nasties come EVERY DAY so if even if you update daily you still face a significant risk.
Unfortunately, I've come across people who say 'I have AV, I'm safe' and they are deluded. Some don't even have the thing activated or ever update it and then practive unsafe surfing. |
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| Barefoot Andrew |
I would agree to a point - even with AV installed one should still practice safe, sensible surfing or face the consequences for doing something silly. But it's nevertheless an important tool to help guard against unforeseen problems.
As for firewalls, I would profoundly advise anyone against running without a firewall - that really is asking for trouble. My firewall reports several hundred unauthorised attempts to connect to my machine every day. Far better that such attempts to be blocked outright, than to rely on Windows defending itself. Compared to the complexity of an operating system, a firewall is a relatively simple mechanism: let the simpler more efficient device do the work for you. Less chance of it making a faulty decision. On a related note, I would advise most non-technical people to keep Windows up-to-date automatically. However as a techie I specifically opt not to do this, because some of the MS hot fixes in the past have been a bit hastily cobbled together and have subsequently caused problems with other software. However, weeding out which are the good ones and which are the slightly iffier ones is beyond the non-technical, so better to have blanket updating enabled. A. |
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| jema |
Let me clear up my point about firewalls.
Yes you should have a firewall somewhere in the system. I just wanted to put a firewall in perspective. Firstly to defend against incoming attacks you only need one firewall. If you are on broadband the router/cable box thing is that firewall and is always on. So in that context a firewall on XP as well can only be: 1) A pain in the arse. 2) Report something amiss with outgoing traffic. In which case it is too late your PC is malwared. Secondly I think people are being trained to look at their PCs and some fragile beast that if exposed to the ravages of incoming attacks will keel over and die. There have been a few isolated cases over the years of operating systems being vulnerable to this sort of attack (which is why you should run a firewall) but mostly a PC is set up to be safe anyway. A PC is in a sense its own firewall with each service a firewall would be protecting set to be protected by passwords or by not being run at all. Time and time again a PCs biggest vulnerability is its users who are conned one way or another into running something they have downloaded or been emailed, whether that is a freeby toolbar or a promise of Britney Speares 
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| Chez |
I wasn't so much thinking of that kind of thing - you deserve what you get if you go looking for Britney. I was more thinking of the people I used to teach - very, very inexperienced and nervous users who really didn't have a clue about good practice. Those kind of people are spending so much brain-power trying to remember how to operate the machine that they really don't have any spare capacity to identify what are nasty emails etc. and what aren't. Hear what you say about firewall, though - I run a software one as well as a hardware one because I take my laptop out and about. |
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| Barefoot Andrew |
With this I agree:-
But with this, I'm less in agreement:-
The outside-world-facing side of a PC's communications infrastructure is amazingly complicated comprising many parts written by many people. I would prefer not to rely on every single part being robust and foolproof, and would instead much prefer to have a separate mechanism, a firewall, sitting between this complexity and the outside world. And my advice would be for everyone else to do similarly.
Your machine and my machine keep working because we know what we're doing. How many times have you encountered a friend or relative come across some inexplicable problem - the seeds of which are usually in something they've done, but not anything that could specifically put their finger on? A. |
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| jema |
I do say use a firewall, I just think people have a warped view of them.
Yes PCs are flakey in terms of what people can do to wreck them, I was really only referring to their vulnerability to attack that is not the user opening the gate in some way. |
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| IanNW |
I left my key with a relative to house sit and upon my return the PC was full of all sorts of crap, to the extent that it was easier to format the hard drive and start from scratch.
I tend not to open any emails with attachments that i am not aware of before hand. I also avoid adult sites and freeware as these tend to be the worst offenders of carrying virus's and trojan horses. Also downloading items from the many piracy sites can add to your problems. I tend to use the web for research and finding information. DL any progs from the web is now a past time. human nature that people like to spoil someone else time |
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| IanNW |
I left my key with a relative to house sit and upon my return the PC was full of all sorts of crap, to the extent that it was easier to format the hard drive and start from scratch.
I tend not to open any emails with attachments that i am not aware of before hand. I also avoid adult sites and freeware as these tend to be the worst offenders of carrying virus's and trojan horses. Also downloading items from the many piracy sites can add to your problems. I tend to use the web for research and finding information. DL any progs from the web is now a past time. human nature that people like to spoil someone else time |
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| Chez |
Yeah, we had that trouble when we let the Polish Lodgers use the PC for emails. Never again ... |