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Lorrainelovesplants

Anyone tried grant funding for farm diversification

Im lookin for people who have tried (perhps failed, but also suceeded) in getting grant funding for farm diversification.

Particularly in SW, as its eligible for the new tranche of funding.
Hairyloon

Most, if not all of the funding I have looked at is only available to non-profit organisations.
So if you run your farm as one (and why not) you might be eligible.
I've often wondered why anyone (excxept the greedy) needs to make a profit, especially now we know the kinds of things that are allowed as expenses.
Nick

Making a profit is an essential cost to almost all businesses.
Hairyloon

Nick wrote:
Making a profit is an essential cost to almost all businesses.

That's an oxymoron. Profit is what's left after the essential costs.
Though it is fair to say that many businesses are funded by shareholders and the shareholders expect a share of the profit.
Truffle

there's grants for truffle cultivation: www.PlantationSystems.com but i'm not sure about other (non-woodland) projects.
orangepippin

Hairyloon wrote:
Nick wrote:
Making a profit is an essential cost to almost all businesses.

That's an oxymoron. Profit is what's left after the essential costs.
Though it is fair to say that many businesses are funded by shareholders and the shareholders expect a share of the profit.

I think profit is a way of achieving entrepreneurial activity in an economy, and historically appears to be generally better at creating wealth for society (the owners of the economy) than alternatives such as state ownership. In a sense it is "bottom up" compared with state directed economies which are "top down". I personally don't think profit is inherently bad, it is generally a good thing.

Regarding the original post, I did an application for diversification into an orchard a few years back. It was successful but I am not sure I would do it again, there is a danger you end up doing what the funding wants you to do, instead of what you want to do. In some ways I think it would be better if there was no funding, and we all just paid less tax instead.
Truffle

orangepippin wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:
Nick wrote:
Making a profit is an essential cost to almost all businesses.

That's an oxymoron. Profit is what's left after the essential costs.
Though it is fair to say that many businesses are funded by shareholders and the shareholders expect a share of the profit.

I think profit is a way of achieving entrepreneurial activity in an economy, and historically appears to be generally better at creating wealth for society (the owners of the economy) than alternatives such as state ownership. In a sense it is "bottom up" compared with state directed economies which are "top down". I personally don't think profit is inherently bad, it is generally a good thing.

Regarding the original post, I did an application for diversification into an orchard a few years back. It was successful but I am not sure I would do it again, there is a danger you end up doing what the funding wants you to do, instead of what you want to do. In some ways I think it would be better if there was no funding, and we all just paid less tax instead.

We've seen the same thing in some research funding applications, the application turns into what the funding body wants which in some cases is far removed form the original project- frustrating when it involves lengthy paperwork and months of waiting.
Truffle
tahir

orangepippin wrote:
Regarding the original post, I did an application for diversification into an orchard a few years back. It was successful but I am not sure I would do it again, there is a danger you end up doing what the funding wants you to do, instead of what you want to do. In some ways I think it would be better if there was no funding, and we all just paid less tax instead.


I walked away from potential funding for ours because of this.
Lorrainelovesplants

Very good points made.
Actually, OH is against the idea, and says I should bump my mum off instead. That would give us the money to put the shed up an buy more hens as well....... Laughing
Rob R

tahir wrote:
orangepippin wrote:
Regarding the original post, I did an application for diversification into an orchard a few years back. It was successful but I am not sure I would do it again, there is a danger you end up doing what the funding wants you to do, instead of what you want to do. In some ways I think it would be better if there was no funding, and we all just paid less tax instead.


I walked away from potential funding for ours because of this.


Same here, match funded, it seemed like an expensive way to tie your hands behind your back for many years.

We only took the Countryside Stewardship Scheme on because it involved a lot of capital works & we were going to manage the land that way in any case. But even that is restrictive- the grazing dates assume a dry summer/wet winter, and extending the grazing season, as we are trying to do, makes it tricky when you have to stop grazing by the end of October & November.
Rob R

Hairyloon wrote:
I've often wondered why anyone (excxept the greedy) needs to make a profit, especially now we know the kinds of things that are allowed as expenses.


I need to make a profit to house & feed myself, that's still not an allowable expense...
Hairyloon

Rob R wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:
I've often wondered why anyone (excxept the greedy) needs to make a profit, especially now we know the kinds of things that are allowed as expenses.

I need to make a profit to house & feed myself, that's still not an allowable expense...

Try paying yourself wages. They are an allowable expense.
Rob R

Will have to make a profit first Wink Laughing
Lorrainelovesplants

Yes, wages...what exactlyare those? In 4 years trading as a smallholding have made £4 profit.

We eat because I teach.

Have been looking at a few places in L'ston that have adapted farm buildings as workshops/cafes, and hoping to meet up with some people. The problem is always going to be reconciling making money through these kind of things which is technically farm diversification with the ag tie which states I must make most of my/our income through agriculture (strictly agriculture).

This is always going to be the problem.
Vic

We are on the verge of hearing if we've been successful in getting a grant via these people

http://www.chalkandcheese.org/index.php?page=local-action-for-rural-communities

Might be worth finding out if there is somethign similar in Cornwall as there certainly is in Somerset and Wiltshire. With this one, they only provide up to 50% and you have to prove that you can get the balance, though this can be 'in kind' etc. So far, the process hasn't been too bad (some serious form filling in, but lots of help provided.) We are looking to convert derelict farm buildings as both premises for an existing business, and to enable the farm to diversify in other ways. Keeping out fingers crossed that we get the grant!
Hairyloon

Lorrainelovesplants wrote:
Yes, wages...what exactlyare those? In 4 years trading as a smallholding have made £4 profit.

We eat because I teach.

Isn't the point of a smallholding to grow food?
Nick

Not the whole point, no.
Ixy

Lorrainelovesplants wrote:
Yes, wages...what exactlyare those? In 4 years trading as a smallholding have made £4 profit.



less tax! thats the way i look at it Very Happy
Rob R

Profits fund much of taxation too- without it we'd lose a lot of the free public services, also business expansion, which would then need to be added to the 'essential' costs of business, without the advantages of profit. The more I think about it, the less attractive that becomes...
Lorrainelovesplants

I think the 'point' of smallholding is a huge subject.

We run the smallholding because we wanted a rural life where we could raise our own fod yes, but its a lot more than that. We are far enough away from town life that we dont have vandalism, noisy neighbours, light pollution, we know where our kids are, and who they mix with (because we have to take them everywhere), we are more in touch with life because its in contact daily....

Its a way of life for us.....not just a 'fill the fridge' existance. And very seasonal...so the food we grow here (eg lamb) might not appear till October, or June (for Mackerel), or July (tomatoes, most veg) or Sept (apples).
Lorrainelovesplants

Iv just spoken to a nice man at the EH at the council who has cleared the way for me to do cream teas in the garden.

Another little strand to add to the rope..................
Ixy

Lorrainelovesplants wrote:
Iv just spoken to a nice man at the EH at the council who has cleared the way for me to do cream teas in the garden.

Another little strand to add to the rope..................


wahey - good idea!
Hairyloon

Rob R wrote:
Profits fund much of taxation too- without it we'd lose a lot of the free public services,

But how many providers of those free services are now making a profit?
Quote:
also business expansion, which would then need to be added to the 'essential' costs of business, without the advantages of profit.

Expansion already is an essential cost. What's this "advantage" of profit you are banging on about?
Rob R

[quote="Hairyloon"]
Rob R wrote:
Profits fund much of taxation too- without it we'd lose a lot of the free public services,

But how many providers of those free services are now making a profit?

Eh? Confused


Hairyloon wrote:
Quote:
also business expansion, which would then need to be added to the 'essential' costs of business, without the advantages of profit.

Expansion already is an essential cost. What's this "advantage" of profit you are banging on about?


Well if you've branded expansion as an essential cost it makes me wonder what else is essential? When I went to school profit funded owners drawings, expansion & improvements. Profit encourages capital investment & invention though, as well as providing a cushion for when you make a loss. You could get rid of profit- that doesn't mean you'd get rid of loss...
Ixy

if you say, bought a bigger vehicle in order to expand you'd put that down as an expense though? wouldn't you? Confused
Hairyloon

Rob R wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:
Rob R wrote:
Profits fund much of taxation too- without it we'd lose a lot of the free public services,

But how many providers of those free services are now making a profit?

Eh? Confused

Plenty of PFI hospitals & Skools now making a profit from providing the service.
Also, much of the auxiliary work is sub-contracted out, and we hear frightening tales about how much hospitals spend on management consultants. These are more than likely private, profit making concerns.
Quote:
Well if you've branded expansion as an essential cost it makes me wonder what else is essential? When I went to school profit funded owners drawings, expansion & improvements.

Well perhaps the definition of "profit" is a little woolly.
However, we have quite a lot of laws to ensure that charities are run as non-profit enterprises. That is where I am deriving my definition from.
Rob R

Ixy wrote:
if you say, bought a bigger vehicle in order to expand you'd put that down as an expense though? wouldn't you? Confused


No, you'd get a capital allowance against tax of 25% (or whatever rate applies) of the value each year (similar, but not the same as, depreciation), but you can't claim the full cost because it's an asset, rather than an expense, and therefore retains some of its value.
Rob R

Hairyloon wrote:
Plenty of PFI hospitals & Skools now making a profit from providing the service.
Also, much of the auxiliary work is sub-contracted out, and we hear frightening tales about how much hospitals spend on management consultants. These are more than likely private, profit making concerns.


Ah, I see, but a lot of tax revenue comes from profits, and if we reduced profits en masse the government would just change the ways they collected that revenue, which would push costs up again, unless I'm missing something significant?

Quote:
Well perhaps the definition of "profit" is a little woolly.
However, we have quite a lot of laws to ensure that charities are run as non-profit enterprises. That is where I am deriving my definition from.


I'm not that familiar with how charities balance their books, but aren't they one of the more 'profitable' organisations, where their objective is to raise money for doing as little (cost incurring) work as possible? Although maybe when they use the money it goes down as an expense dontknow

Anyway, it doesn't bother me too much, what with personal allowances & capital allowances I guess we are doing what you are proposing.
Hairyloon

Rob R wrote:
No, you'd get a capital allowance against tax of 25% (or whatever rate applies) of the value each year (similar, but not the same as, depreciation), but you can't claim the full cost because it's an asset, rather than an expense, and therefore retains some of its value.

But the point is that it doesn't count as profit (at least in the context of a non-profit enterprise).
Helen_A

Not-for-profit doesn't mean not making a profit. It just means that that profit isn't going on wages, costs etc over and above a reasonable level, and that usually it is going to fund projects, schemes etc that could be seen as 'social' or 'charitable' in objective.
Lorrainelovesplants

If we an get back to the point? Smile
I had a meeting with a Lantra adviser this week, who heads a thing called Business Forward down ere. She was very good, and has gone to speak to some other folk . She is arranging for us to hve a free consultation with a business consultant (the kind that understands agriculture) as to diversification, possible employment (ie apprentice), training, and buildings etc.
She is also looking a Women in work to ascertain wha is available for me as a woman run business in agriculture. All sounds very promising. (at least its positive)
thewoollyshepherd

Well I'd like to put my bit here....There is plenty of money out there for lots of activities.......I know because I would not have been able to diversify into wool processing without nearly £30k of funding from Devon Renaissance, Blackdown Hills Leader + and the Blackdown Hills Sustainable development fund. Yes I have put in money myself but have put in a lot of 'in kind' contributions of time and training commitments.

As a result we have a viable enterprise.....still have to work 60 hour weeks but its up and running very successfully!

There is no such thing as a free lunch and funding requires effort and sometimes one has to take a circuitous route to get to your goal because of the conditions of the funders. I believe its worth the detour if you get to your goal!
Rob R

Hairyloon wrote:
Rob R wrote:
No, you'd get a capital allowance against tax of 25% (or whatever rate applies) of the value each year (similar, but not the same as, depreciation), but you can't claim the full cost because it's an asset, rather than an expense, and therefore retains some of its value.

But the point is that it doesn't count as profit (at least in the context of a non-profit enterprise).


Thinking about this through an unrelated matter I think I've worked out where you're coming from now, the difference between profit and excessive profit therefore I agree, we don't need 'profit' to produce food, quite the opposite, in fact.
Pea

I have received funding for diversification from RES a few years back. They now have another batch of money to give away.

Try the Rural Etnerprise Scheme and the other scheme detailed below.

Strategic Investment Grants

The Strategic Investments Grants which are funded through the Rural Development Programme for England have been extended and re-launched.

The Strategic Investment Grants (for grants of £62,500 and above) are available to land based businesses and can fund large scale and collaborative projects to improve the competitiveness of the agricultural and forestry sector, and improve the quality of life in rural areas, and diversification of the rural economy.

The new areas are:

Agriculture and Horticulture
To improve the economic performance of agricultural and horticultural businesses through investments in technologies intended to improve the utilisation of power, heat, manures and water.

Organic Farm Wastes
Can provide financial assistance towards the capital costs of plant, fixed equipment and infrastructure necessary for the processing of organic farm wastes. Assistance is intended to support technologies (such as biogas and anaerobic digestion).

Farm Diversification
To directly support farm businesses seeking increased income from enterprises other than traditional agricultural enterprises and to generate benefits to the wider rural economy through on-farm investment.

Forestry
To improve the economic value of forests and support the production, processing and marketing of primary forestry products through investment in improved efficiency, renewable energy, new technologies and new market opportunities.

Relaunched:

Livestock
To improve the processing and marketing of livestock products.

Fruit & Vegetable Packing & Processing
To improve the processing and marketing of fruit and vegetable products.

Centralised Storage and Processing Facilities for Combinable Crops
To help the combinable crops sector to become more competitive.

Full details of each of these Strategic Investment Grants can be found by clicking the following link (they are listed as pdf files on the right hand side of the screen):


<http://www.advantagewm.co.uk/working-with-us/rdpe/how-do-i-apply/sig-bidding-rounds-and-grants.aspx>


I hope this helps Pea
Rob R

Pea wrote:
I have received funding for diversification from RES a few years back. They now have another batch of money to give away.

Try the Rural Etnerprise Scheme and the other scheme detailed below.


Didn't that close in 2006?
Pea

Yep RES did, but they have just called it something else, hang on I will trawl through the emails.......

They have now called it the REG it is running until 2012.

Hope that helps. Pea
Rob R

Ah, they did it to confuse people like me Rolling Eyes Confused

Thanks Smile
Pea

Rob R wrote:
Ah, they did it to confuse people like me Rolling Eyes Confused

Thanks Smile


Dont worry Rob I kept thinking the same when we went to the seminar at Stoneleigh.
alison

I have had 2 defra grants

One was for farm diversification, redundant farm buildings grant, for helping with the B&B conversion (Didn't pay for the VAT of the build, but was nice nevertheless)

The other was a matched funding grant for upgrading the camping barn.

In total they were for a lot of money, and we would't have been able to go ahead, certainly with the camping barn one, without it.

Try going on the j4b web site, as they are totally grant based, searching in chatagories, like agriculture etc.
Lorrainelovesplants

Alison -thanks.

To be fair - I spoke to folk at Business Link (who were useess) last year, and the rural gateway people wernt interested (then) in us because we are only on an acre.
But thaks to a lovely helpfl lot at Business Forward, and a nice lady called Deborah Turner we are getting a lot of help and support; actual useful support..............so much so that within 1 month I have increased my turnover by a third, and feeling much more positive about things.

We are in process of expanding our shed system and OH is getting things together to install a forge on the premises to increase his hand forged metal stuff.

I will explore Rural Gateway again, and the site suggested by Alison, but half the battle is getting to talk to someone who 1. actually cares, and 2. knows how to do the paperwork side of it.

Things looking up Smile
alison

Business link paid for us to have a couple of consultants out, who walked the farm, and took on board all our ideas, then came up with even more.

In fact I think BL paid for 2 separate ones of these, and arranged for 50% of our first web site to be funded by another grant.
jenn

I have been trying to get grants for our daughters small business in order that she can afford a small workshop unit but our local council apparently only give grants to anything related to agriculture, so it might be worth trying your local council

jenn
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