| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| Ixy |
AquacultureThought I'd create a dedicated thread somewhere more appropriate
I want to have a go at this, was charmed by the idea a few years ago when i watched a documentary about a japanese village which was made up of houses on stilts over a shallow, clear river. Every house had a mesh 'pen' underneath it for the fish and all table scraps were thrown to the fish, and then when they were fat enough they were eaten. Seemed very efficient! I think the two ponds we have here are unsuitable - one is too small and the other is too inaccessible for catching the crop I think! It also gets soiled and churned up by cattle/geese/ducks etc. So I was thinking of starting from scratch by digging half the depth, and using that soil to build up the sides and then putting a proper lining in? Does anybody know if the table scraps regs apply to fish? Carp seem to be vegetarian - something that'd eat meat would be handy for us, any species suggestions? |
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| Treacodactyl |
This old thread might be worth a scan: http://forum.downsizer.net/viewtopic.php?t=27602
There's no much in it but I wonder how far Truffle has got? |
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| resistance is fertile |
We are building our little reed thatched chicken houses on stilts (vietnamese house design) in the middle of eaach pond with wire floors and running a whole series of ponds, like the old stewpond idea.
Filling a drained one with young chickens (who eat the shoots and pooh everywhere) then move them into 'next door' pond and flood their previous one so the fish eats well on what the poultry left, then on and on, from pond to pond. I have a solar pump dedicated to the ponds for running water and filling/filtration etc and just like the idea of trout fry from a friend fattened up and smoked in our iminent smokehouse 
Carrie, having done allsorts of african aquaculture stuff, thinks pond fish are far more efficient etc (just not as appetising!) Dont think we can really run to trying to set up this system for multispecies (but maybe) as the ponds are not that deep. All sounds like fun though
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| Ixy |
I like that idea! Similar to what I've read but with cattle rather than fish, and then 'grazing' grass carp in the ponds... How are you planning on draining the ponds though? |
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| resistance is fertile |
There is a seperate trench running beside them all with a drain in and out and a series of sluices so we can drain and fill any of them.
The pump comes into play when you refill the top one again and for aeration etc. |
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| Ixy |
ah i see yes - good idea! | ||||||
| SmattyB |
Ixy
Carp are omnivorous and even predatory at times, I have even caught commons on lures in the past (although not often) and you'll often hear them hoovering up the invertebrates from the underside of lilly pads in the summer. River cottage 'Gone fishing' is being repeated at the mo and the next episode visits an organic carp farm, a British first apparently. Chan 4 I think it's on Tuesday nights. M |
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| Ixy |
I was going to say 'thanks but we don't have a telly and the dongle isn't up to internet TV' but I've just been informed that we have the DVD!!!! 
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| resistance is fertile |
Amongst the lively 'debate' that this thread reignited between ourselves last night I found myself making the point that we had seen 'the UK's first carp farmer' years ago on telly. My point was that he is probably either still the UKs only carp farmer or the UKs only Ex-carp farmer as there has not been any discernible uptake from the fish eating public. I still think its the sort of fish you would have to be fairly hungry to want to eat
Catfish anyone? |
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| Ixy |
Yeah I'd go for catfish - what are they like? | ||||||
| BadgerFace |
I have an old fishing book, from the ‘The Badminton Library of Sports and Pastimes’ (1889). It has a very interesting chapter on carp and tench. It tells of how carp were reared in wet moss lined ‘hammocks’, hanging in cool cellars and spoon fed ‘like large babies’ on a diet of bread and milk ! Apparently they have the ability to survive out of water, as long as they are not allowed to dry out. They must have thought they were worth eating to go to that much trouble. The same book talks of rearing tench for the table, fed on meal - slimy tench & chips, anyone ? 
Not much help to you Ixy, but interesting I thought
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| SmattyB |
http://www.aquavisiononline.com/
Seem to be the people that HFW visited, but the pages don't seem to be too up to date, wonder how they are doing. RIF smoked trout does take some beating and they come in many colours to tempt the punters. I've just started smoking fish in my Pizza oven and it works pretty well (small scale though). |
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| resistance is fertile |
I rest my case Mrs RIF 
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| shadiya |
Afraid not RIF, they are def still going. In fact Jimmie was one of the local food producers at the Soil Association Conference dinner last autumn and jolly nice his carp was too! I expect they just haven't had a chance to update their web site, what with there not being enough hours in the day and all....
We've just had a local fish farmer ban all Eastern Europeans from his fishing lakes, on the grounds that they are actually taking the fish home to eat!!!! Bl**dy foreigners, don't they understand fishing is a sport, not a way of feeding yourself?? 
I'm really interested in your pond design, any chance we could have a few more details? Pictures? |
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| Silas |
Oh good. Racism manages to rear its ugly head even here. |
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| shadiya |
I really am sorry if anybody thought I was being racist by sharing what was happening locally. I was attempting to point out that carp are a fish of choice to many people, and that far from being a bony fish not worth eating, we are actually having a problem with people not being allowed to take their catch home to eat. I thought the winking emoticon made it clear that the remark was made very much tongue in cheek. | ||||||
| Snowball |
Silas, I really think that Shadiya was being ironic, not racist. | ||||||
| Snowball |
cross posted with Shadiya.
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| shadiya |
Thanks Snowball. | ||||||
| Treacodactyl |
It did, I assume Silas was joking. That's the thing with carp, they are eaten by lots of different people around the world there must be ways of making them more than edible. |
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| Ixy |
VERY! I can't imagine spoonfeeding a carp in a hammock....no wait, actually I can
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| Silas |
Sorry, my remark was intended to be read regarding your fish farmer not your remark - I know that you were joking. |
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| Silas |
Its probably because they will thrive in almost any conditions. |
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| Snowball |
My apologies Silas. | ||||||
| Ixy |
even hammocks. |
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| Treacodactyl |
Possibly but people do seem to target them to eat. I don't think they need to but I think that's what they have been brought up with. I wonder if it's a question of taste, so over time we could all get to like them? Or perhaps you just need to know how to prepare them? |
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| Silas |
No problem. |
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| Tavascarow |
The main problem with trout farming is the need for high protein food which invariably means fish meal & that isn't a sustainable option.
I suppose you could maintain a breeding population of carp & feed the fry to the trout but I cant imagine that would be easy.
Reminds me of when I was fly fishing with a friend at a local reservoir stocked with trout. My friend caught a beautiful 2lb golden rudd which we released unharmed. When we told the resident balliff he gave us hell for letting it go 'cause the rudd eat the pellets they throw in for the trout. Apparently they release course fish like rudd as fry for the trout & some survive to adult sizes.
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| Ixy |
yeah but if the table scraps regs don't apply to fish then you can feed them all your meat trimmings etc | ||||||
| Oxford-Sandy-Man |
Hi everyone,
I've not been on here for a while so I'm sorry to butt in! I used to work on a fish farm, we farmed mostly ornamental species, ghost carp,golden rudd,orfe that sort of thing along with common and mirror carp. I my self have never eaten carp but the chap I used to work for loved it! By and large carp are very hardy, fast growing and easy to keep provided the conditions they are kept in a suitable. Different types of soil and ground conditions come with there different advanatages, for example carp will thrive in a clay pond however water quality tends drop quicker then a gravel bedded pond. As with any livestock theres more to rearing them than just chucking them in and letting them get on with although with that said carp in small numbers are by no means hard work! There certain rules and regs regarding fish as with any other animal although with fish the environment agency generaly rule the roost so to speak! In terms of pond creation anyone can dig a pond and no planning permission needs to be sort unless 1 you have to export spoil of your site 2 the pond is less than 25 metres from a public highway. The other thing that needs to be considered is how close to another water course (river) you are if you are pretty close permission may need to be sort before any excavations take place. The other thing to bare in mind is that to put any fish into a pond (other than a lined garden pond) you most likley will requirte asection 30: this basically means a sample of fish which has been mixed with the fish you are getting must be sent to the environment agency so they can disect them to check for disease's before they are moved - without this you are open to be hit with a hefty fine! Anyway I'll stop rambling now but if you need any more info or husbandry advice just ask! I've also got plenty of contacts in UK carp farms and can get you started off with a few fish at the right money if needed!
OSM |
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| Calli |
We are currently in the process of a feasablilty study on creating three stock ponds. Ten acres of the farm are pretty much under water due to five natural well springs.
The central fisheries board have been out to survey and the crucial points are that there is no possiblity of the stock 'escaping' to local waters and that no invasive pond species are used. We seem to be getting alot of encouragement from the powers that govern here. Re: Carp - the stocks available are non existant this year primarily due to angling clubs having to massively restock loughs that have been stripped. Brilliant resource and alot of information on here (Just takes a little finding...) Central Fisheries Board |
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| Bulgarianlily |
Would carp keep on top of mosquito larva? I would hate to build a big pond and then get bitten for my pains.... |