| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| wikaniko |
are you looking?Are you looking for a challenge?I'm looking for someone, preferably in the Yorkshire/Lincs area to work alongside to create an ethical eco business. If you want to chat about whats involved PM or email me. If you are interested but live in another area, still contact me and I can put you in touch with someone locally. If you want to know more you take a look at my website easyeco.co.uk |
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| cab |
You're this site then?
http://www.wikaniko.com/ |
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| wikaniko |
sort of..... this is the company site. Wikaniko is an eco-cooperative with independent distributors. my personal site is www.easyeco.co.uk I'm not one for working on my own so I'm looking for someone to join me and hopefully we will both create successful ethical businesses. |
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| lettucewoman |
the eco.co.uk site just appears to be a domain registration? | ||||||
| Jonnyboy |
weird, his www link works fine. | ||||||
| lettucewoman |
the wikanico ones does but the other one is 123 domain registrations.... | ||||||
| Jonnyboy |
I know, his www link is easyeco but it pass through to a personalised wikanico page. | ||||||
| Simon |
I've signed up for the free organic allotment newsletter. Thanks | ||||||
| Hairyloon |
Re: are you looking?
So what is it you are wanting. It's totally not clear from the website. |
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| Treacodactyl |
I've fixed their link so it's working now. (It had a . at the end so the link didn't work.) |
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| wikaniko |
Thank you 
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| Simon |
Re: are you looking?
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| Bulgarianlily |
the background noise on that site is very annoying. Is there a turn it bloody off button? | ||||||
| wikaniko |
If you use www.easyeco.co.uk you bypass the index page which is the one I think you find annoying. |
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| Treacodactyl |
Or you can just press the 'sound' icon on the right hand side of the page. | ||||||
| wikaniko |
Re: are you looking?
go to www.easyeco.co.uk then from the links on the left have a look at 'products' and 'join us' there are also some freebies. The games are fun and addictive and you can also send e-cards aswell as lots of green stuff! |
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| cab |
There was some brief discussion of your site previously. See:
http://forum.downsizer.net/viewtopic.php?t=39743&highlight=wikaniko |
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| County4x4 |
Re: are you looking?
Would this version of "ethical" include making absolutely ludicrous scientific claims about a number of the products you wish to sell? Fuel saver magnets, magical ionic toothbrushes, remote infra-red emitting wash balls etc etc. I think looking for advice on trading standards and false advertising might be more appropriate. The sad thing is that there are people out there who will believe this "scientific" utter nonsense, and the owners of the company will no doubt be laughing all the way to the bank on the back of their greenwashed claims. Well not with any of MY money they won't! 
I've emailed them asking for some details of the claims they make - I will not be holding my breath for a reply. Andy |
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| Bulgarianlily |
Games are rubbish (in more ways than one) too 
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| wikaniko |
Hi 'county 4x4'
I'm pleased that you have found time to have a look at the website and that out of over 500 products you only have a few complaints
I believe that the information on the products are from the manufacturer. In the case of the magnets the company guarantee a saving or your money will be returned. Although I do have a PhD in chemistry I do not have the information required to make an informed decision on the suitability of these products but that the same would go for 90% of scientific products advertised. I will also try and find out some more information regarding these products. I know that everybody involved is committed to the ethical nature of Wikaniko both in the way it is run and the products we sell. |
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| cab |
I love it, thats just such a great way of taking a positive out of an overwhelmingly negative review  Good for you.
Well, for my money, for some of those claims to be credible you'd need to be using those products while the laws of thermodynamics have popped out to eat a sticky bun. Take the laundry balls, for example. I hope you don't have a problem if I take one of the claims I previously found on your website and post it here for discussion, I'm picking this one because I'd appreciate the input of a PhD level chemist:
Here you have a specific claim that you can do some maths with, meat and drink chemistry of the kind you'd have given to an O-level student (although I was recently disheartened to talk with an A-level student who couldn't do it  )
Isn't hard to work out how much energy is required to convert, say, a fiftieth of the water used in a typical wash into hydrogen. Do you really believe that claim? Edit: Of course, you have to convert it into real language first. There being no hydrogen 'molecules' in water, I think we have to assume that this means splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen, or even producing hydrogen and hyroxide. Hitting water with IR until it splits, basically. |
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| Brownbear |
So this wikywankywoo guy is basically a shill for a load of dodgy eco-balls (also Eco-Balls), and looking for berks to give him money for the right to sell it?
Oh, and now you've got that PhD. in Chemistry, you might want to study for a GCSE in 'not showing off qualifications in an attempt to stifle skepticism.' |
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| County4x4 |
Well as I said I emailed the wikaniko outfit to ask about some of the clims their website was making for various products, and today I have had the courtesy of a reply, which I will copy below, along with my original email to them. Don't know what any of you guys think?
My email to them - signed with my own name btw.
And today I received this email in reply - not signed incidentally and from an anonymous email forwarding service.
The "character" mentioned is The Stig just for your information - I was always (and still am) referred to in mower racing circles as Stig - due to the fact that I always used a Simpson helmet. I do not, and never have passed myself off as The Stig of Top Gear fame - as to pretend to all and sundry to be someone whose identity is always supposed to be a secret would be a little silly wouldn't it?! I'm also not quite sure where I have purported to be an expert on various subjects? If you look up the fuel saver magnets on ANY motoring or vehicle forum they are slagged off as just more snake oil - it's not just me! The person who responded, nameless though they are, seems a little rattled - I think I'd have expected a rather calmer character representing such a green and pleasant business.
Nice meeting you all anyway - looks like I'll be off to prison shortly 
Andy |
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| Brownbear |
The word 'throbber' comes to mind.
Let us be grateful to this particular throbber for saving any of us the trouble of wondering whether this company is anything other than ten dozen of dog eggs. |
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| County4x4 |
Fantastic - well done Brownbear - that is quite the most superb new insult I've heard in many a long afternoon! I will be adding it to my daily vocabulary right now
Andy |
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| Bulgarianlily |
whhooo, whoo, that was a fun reply. Why not post their email address and we can all go play with them!
I do hope the original poster comes back and explains their customer service policy... |
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| sally_in_wales |
what a truly bizarre response. 
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| Brownbear |
People whose first response when challenged is to threaten you with lawyers are either crooks, or mentally unbalanced, or both. I hope this cretin does come on here to threaten us all with the wisdom gleaned from his dog-eared copy of The Beginner's Guide to the Law. I'd love to see him locked in debate with Cab - it would be like watching a cage fight at a lunatic asylum. | ||||||
| sally_in_wales |
I'm just struggling to see how he got to his response from the email posted, its as if he thinks he knows who the poster is, and has got it wrong, all very odd. Would have been much simpler to say 'we trust the manufacturers to research their products' and leave it at that if they couldnt be bothered to answer the questions posed. Would have been just as unhelpful but far less, well, plain bizarre is all that comes to mind reading that. | ||||||
| County4x4 |
Sally - the fraudulent passing myself off behaviour comment came about because the email which I copied above (in full btw) was from my personal email account, which will give the senders name as "The Stig"(fastmower@etc.etc.co.uk)
I was surprised myself at how hostile whoever replied seemed to be - notice they ddin't have the bottle to put their name to it, or to use their own email account - maybe they get a lot of emails like mine? The email address I contacted them through originally was info@wikaniko.com
I have run a couple of specialist internet businesses myself in the past, and this was NOT the way I used to respond to ANY contacts. The only complaints we ever had were failed deliveries by our carriers, and of course the odd slip up where something was missed off an order - and in both cases I'd generally send them a replacement out for nothing, plus either a voucher or another freebie of some sort to make amends for the inconvenience. That seemed to me to be the "right way" of doing things - this person obviously has a rather different take on things! Anyway, it gave us all a giggle - and hopefully will prevent anyone else from here signing up with this outfit! Cheers, Andy (PS - I'm an expert by the way - on "various subjects", so if anyone needs any help.......
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| Behemoth |
Quite remarkable.
You can get your clothes clean buy beating them against a rock in a stream. Sorry i shall rephrase, physio-geo-hydro agitation subject to molecular impact by UV rays. |
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| Monsieur Hulot |
I can see why people find the science questionable but wwhy pick on this lot? They are just small fry compared with the large high street stores which also sell these products. I have seen the same advets for the wash balls in Lakeland stores and Tesco.
If you want to take on someone why don't you take on the big boys or even better the manufacturers that would make more sense. |
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| gil |
Tesco and Lakeland don't join Downsizer and post on here trying to sell the stuff, or offering 'business opportunities'. | ||||||
| Chez |
I think you should use that as your .sig ... "I pass as an expert in various subjects" 
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| Monsieur Hulot |
To be fair alot of people advertise their business on here and it is called 'small business chat. | ||||||
| Chez |
That is a fair point, M. Hulot. However, generally speaking, we neither try to promote products that require the laws of thermodynamics to be taking a nap; or respond in quite such a bizarre fashion when asked about them. | ||||||
| Monsieur Hulot |
Agree, but I really think that if someone has a problem with the product they should go to the manufacturers. The people who sell these products may take what they say in good faith and picking on one small business wont make any difference when Tesco's etc are flogging them.
Just had a quick check and you can't blame the OP for the bizare email because that came from someone else. |
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| County4x4 |
I can see where you're coming from Monsieur, but surely ANY business has some degree of responsibility for the advertising that it carries on it's own website?
I have owned and run a couple of businesses online in the past, and I was very careful not to publish any claims on MY website that couldn't be verified. My particular line was model and high powered rockets, where for instance, I wouldn't claim that all the kits I sold were capable of breaking the sound barrier in flight. There were a couple around at the time that would do this using the right motor, but I made sure that this was clear to the customer rather than just saying "this rocket will go past Mach 1 full stop" If the person who responded to my perfectly civil question HAD taken the manufacturers descriptions in good faith, then they could easily have said so, rather than trying to make what appeared to be thinly disguised threats to me personally. That struck me as speaking volumes about the whole operation. The identity of the OP is a funny one. He said his personal site was easyeco.co.uk - but if you click on that you go straight to wikaniko.com - which was where I found the contact email address. Anyway - I won't be losing any sleep over it - if punters want to believe the stuff on the website that's up to them. Cheers, Andy |
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| Chez |
The website redirect thing is common with these MLM things. I have a friend who sells Neways stuff and the bit of her website that is dedicated to it is basically a bit of *their* website dedicated to her. So all sales generated from her contacts get notched up on her account. | ||||||
| Monsieur Hulot |
I suppose this is a general problem when subscribing to any franchise operation. The OP can't pick which products to sell in this type of setup. It is probably a good argument to being independent.
I've enjoyed my little participation on various sites today but as I have been sat in McDonalds car park for the last 6 hours (free wifi in France) I need to get home
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| Brownbear |
So, you're sitting in a car park in France and thought that, a propos of nothing, you'd join a forum and post several times in defence of some retailer with a bizarre attitude to criticism, who is of course nothing to do with you. And you are of course not some representative of said retailer conducting a damage-limitation exercise. Sounds perfectly believable to me. |
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| Chez |
Oooh, BB, you are SUCH a cynic
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| Brownbear |
For a company with such a thirst for litigation, you'd think they'd have a basic understanding of consumer law. Which as far as I'm aware gives retailers a degree of responsibility for the products they sell, very much including the veracity of fanciful or mendacious claims made by the manufacturer. |
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| Simon |
Really? I must upgrade my laptop. |
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| Gervase |
It would seem that the Wikaniko MLM scheme was set up just over a year ago by a couple called Trevor and Karen Blake, who have already done very nicely on the proceeds of a similar MLM operation, Telecom Plus (run by a canny fellow called Charles Wigoder, who is 612st on the Sunday Times 'Rich List' as a result), and by a chap called Paul Hughes.
I'm not sure Karen's sales pitch is likely to appeal to me, though - or indeed to anyone clinging to the last threads of reason: http://www.havenonearth.info/5101.html But, hey, they're nice people. Karen even says she's "a Soul Guide, Messenger and Intuitive". Hmm, I'm almost tempted to part with £48 for the privilege of selling the stuff and saving the planet, and funding their lifestyle in Spain (which is also where wikaniko.com's server sits). |
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| Brownbear |
Thank you Gervase - I see the journo-spidey-sense is still working.
What utter hogwash is on that site.
Trans: give us money and we can make you rich and happy. Or, give us money and you can make us rich and happy.
Eastern philosophy dressed up, like an unconvincing transvestite, in the garb of shallow materialism, with all the convincing glibness you would expect from a composer of advertising slogans for intimate ointments. "Peppermint and Jojoba Crotch Salve - for the outer glow and the inner mushrooms; Health, Harmony and You." No doubt they thought Downsizer was full of the kind of over-moneyed, sub-hippy halfwits who would fall for such drivel. |
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| Mary-Jane |
*Muses: I wonder what my 'authentic self' looks like?* | ||||||
| Brownbear |
Don't you want to be in touch with your Inner Lawyer, M-J? | ||||||
| Mary-Jane |
 That doesn't sound like a good idea...
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| Chez |
Interesting about Telecom Plus - they're now called The Utility Warehouse and we get our telephony through them - used to get gas and electric as well. They provide a good service, in my experience.
I don't like MLM, though. My MIL used to belong to Amway, which has made me very twitchy about them. |
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| Brownbear |
I vaguely remember Amway (bog cleaning fluid and similar, wasn't it?), and the scary evangelism of its sellers. Think of a cross between Mr. Sheen and a revivalist preacher with rattlesnakes in his undercrackers and you're about there. |
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| Chez |
That describes my MIL to a 't'
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| Monsieur Hulot |
Hi Simon, yes it's true. I'm in McD's again (or not if you believe Brown Bear )
In some of the locations you can sit outside others you have to go in so you feel like you should buy something. You don't need any password though so if you are brave you can just sit down and surf! FYI I'm having a P'tite Poivre and a cafe au lait |
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| cab |
Gosh, I'd almost forgotten about this... Still no return to this discussion from Wikaneco or anyone related to it? Shame. | ||||||
| gz |
Agreed- but good products despite that. |
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| sellickbhoy |
i love this thread!!!!
Country 4x4, have you thought of sending your original email and reply back to the info@wik...... for comment? or even onto the founders Trevor and Karen Blake. i'd love to see what they had to say about it Though i am tempted to email them myself with similar challenges to their claims, maybe its just you they didn't like!! |
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| cab |
I'd love it if Wikaniko came back to defend his claims. I'm quite happy to disagree with him about how good his products are, but all the same, I'd love to hear what he'd come up with when asked to explain, using concepts that ought to be meat and drink to a PhD chemist, why things like the washballs aren't mis-sold. |
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| sellickbhoy |
the funny thing is, i am thinking of starting up a wee "green" shop and was looking for products etc to get me going.
this might have been a good wee opportunity to ease myself in i've met a lot of MLM'ers - god they are irritating at the best of times!! |
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| resistance is fertile |
A point apparently lost on the reply dude from 4x4's post. Im pretty sure the sog act stipulates it is the person selling you the goods that is entirely responsible for their fitness for purpose. One thing I was wondering though, given the customer service approach they take, was wether it was worth buying a 'wash ball' complaining that it was patently rubbish, when you get a rude letter telling you where to go could you not then charge a new washing machine to them as a suitable replacement under 'loss of bargain' legislation?
What a crock of eco-sh*te
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