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Brownbear

Badger cull - here we go again

Another of the periodic announcements of a forthcoming badger cull has just occurred, I recall we've been here before with Labour. They changed their minds in the end, given their unpopularity they didn't want to upset the Wind in the Willows brigade.

Funny how the public are more forgiving of bombing Arabs and Afghans than they are of shooting badgers.
Rob R

Re: Badger cull - here we go again

Brownbear wrote:
Funny how the public are more forgiving of bombing Arabs and Afghans than they are of shooting badgers.


Very much so Confused
Mrs R

It's quite breathtaking.


Although I gather farmers are now going to have to pay for the badger cull. Great. I may aswell just give DEFRA my bank details at this rate.
Brownbear

FireNeedles wrote:

Although I gather farmers are now going to have to pay for the badger cull.


I think it's going to be done through licence, which means you can hire contractors or do it yourself if you want. Personally, I'd be willing to trade badger control for stalking rights.
RichardW

FireNeedles wrote:
II may aswell just give DEFRA my bank details at this rate.


They have them already lol.
Mrs R

Brownbear wrote:
FireNeedles wrote:

Although I gather farmers are now going to have to pay for the badger cull.


I think it's going to be done through licence, which means you can hire contractors or do it yourself if you want. Personally, I'd be willing to trade badger control for stalking rights.


Yeah that seems to be a different story to a few days ago - you'll probably find plenty of badger control work down that way soon!
Marts

Here's the Beeb's bit on it
boisdevie1

Does that mean badger hair shaving brushes will be cheaper soon?
Brownbear

boisdevie1 wrote:
Does that mean badger hair shaving brushes will be cheaper soon?


No need. You can just use a badger's head on a stick.
Hairyloon

I'll admit to ignorance on this one.
Obviously I know TB is a bad thing, but is the alleged link between cows and badgers convincing?

And have I got this right? The test for TB in cows tests for the presence of a TB antibody, and if anything has got it, then the whole herd is culled.
Thereby ensuring there is never any possibility of cattle developing any natural immunity.

I'm hoping I have been misinformed, because that is simply madness. Confused
Rob R

Hairyloon wrote:
And have I got this right? The test for TB in cows tests for the presence of a TB antibody, and if anything has got it, then the whole herd is culled.
Thereby ensuring there is never any possibility of cattle developing any natural immunity.


Not the whole herd, just 'reactors', so there is no possibility of natural immunity.
T.G

Rob R wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:
And have I got this right? The test for TB in cows tests for the presence of a TB antibody, and if anything has got it, then the whole herd is culled.
Thereby ensuring there is never any possibility of cattle developing any natural immunity.


Not the whole herd, just 'reactors', so there is no possibility of natural immunity.


oh what wisdom Rolling Eyes
Andy B

Rob R wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:
And have I got this right? The test for TB in cows tests for the presence of a TB antibody, and if anything has got it, then the whole herd is culled.
Thereby ensuring there is never any possibility of cattle developing any natural immunity.


Not the whole herd, just 'reactors', so there is no possibility of natural immunity.


I understand that sometimes the reactors show no signs of TB once culled, which also could mean that some cows that are not reactors could have TB!
darkbrowneggs

The testing is very painful and distressing to the cattle, and they have to be repeatedly caught and handled and re-tested for months, even years before a farm is declared free.

Then there is the time, effort and energy for the farmer, plus the endless worrying about test results. Its one of the reasons I don't keep cattle at present.

I live in an area where many farms have had TB problems and at one time badgers ransacked the garden nightly, and completely undermined one of the local lanes, yet when I was a child (pre-protection laws)I never saw a badger in the area.

Having said that as I understand it TB in humans was rife when they were not fed nutritious food, and were kept in crowded unhygienic conditions. I am sure the overpopulation of badgers would result in crowded conditions, but also when I look at some of the modern intensive dairy and beef farms.......... Rolling Eyes

Sue
Dark Brown Eggs
Hairyloon

darkbrowneggs wrote:
but also when I look at some of the modern intensive dairy and beef farms.......... Rolling Eyes

You don't think there could be a connection? Shocked
That's heresy, they'll burn you at the steak for such a suggestion.
Rob R

darkbrowneggs wrote:
The testing is very painful and distressing to the cattle


All other points aside, where are you getting this information from? as, out of all the criticisms I can think of, this isn't one of them. Confused
Hairyloon

Rob R wrote:
darkbrowneggs wrote:
The testing is very painful and distressing to the cattle

All other points aside, where are you getting this information from? as, out of all the criticisms I can think of, this isn't one of them. Confused

It may not be big on the scale of things, but it is a valid criticism.
Rob R

Only if it is true, I've never seen any evidence of it, that's all.
Mrs R

I'm the first to slag off TB testing, but in my opinion, it's not painful to the animals. Distressing maybe, if they have problems with being routinely handled or put through a crush. Here the ones docile enough to be petted didn't seem to notice, and the bull was a bit difficult but the vet managed to catch him as he flew through the air past him, and I didn't even see it happen Laughing
darkbrowneggs

Certainly my cows didnt like it at all.

All the best
Sue
Dark Brown Eggs

Ps Hairyloon - I prefer my steak rare. Very Happy
Hairyloon

darkbrowneggs wrote:
Ps Hairyloon - I prefer my steak rare. Very Happy

Glad someone spotted the pun. Very Happy
Eryri

.
On 20 September Elin Jones, the Minister for Rural Affairs, (Wales) decided to consult on a draft Order under the Animal Health Act 1981 that would allow for a Government-managed cull of badgers alongside additional cattle measures. This would take place in an Intensive Action Area in a defined part of west Wales.

The supporting documentation is here...

http://tinyurl.com/24ckc9e

The Order (if passed by the Senedd) will allow for :

Destruction of badgers
3.—(1) An authorised officer may destroy badgers in the control area using one of the methods set out in paragraph (2).
(2) The badgers must be—
(a) trapped in a cage and either—
(i) shot; or
(ii) given a lethal injection; or
(b) shot without being trapped in a cage.
(3) The carcase of any badger destroyed under this Order is the property of the Welsh Ministers and must not be removed from the land or premises on which it was destroyed or in any way disposed of without the authority of the Welsh Ministers.

Prohibitions
4. No person may —
(a) take into captivity, harbour, conceal or otherwise protect wild badgers with intent to prevent their destruction;
(b) in any other way obstruct or interfere with anything which has been, is being or is to be done or used in connection with that destruction; or
(c) aid, abet, counsel or procure another person to commit such an act.
Nick

Hairyloon wrote:
I'll admit to ignorance on this one.
Obviously I know TB is a bad thing, but is the alleged link between cows and badgers convincing?


Yes, studies carried out by the government showed a conclusive link, but the papers were never published, because it would mean killing furry creatures. It's also been shown to be transferred from herd to herd by cats, and llamas (trekking holiday firm in the Brecon Beacons).
Gervase

Camelids, you say?
*rubs hands in glee*
Who's for an alpaca cull?
vegplot

Gervase wrote:
Camelids, you say?
*rubs hands in glee*
Who's for an alpaca cull?


Do they taste nice?
Hairyloon

Nick wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:
I'll admit to ignorance on this one.
Obviously I know TB is a bad thing, but is the alleged link between cows and badgers convincing?

Yes, studies carried out by the government showed a conclusive link, but the papers were never published...

Then how do you know the results?
Nick

Hairyloon wrote:
Nick wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:
I'll admit to ignorance on this one.
Obviously I know TB is a bad thing, but is the alleged link between cows and badgers convincing?

Yes, studies carried out by the government showed a conclusive link, but the papers were never published...

Then how do you know the results?


Even the Government have people to carry out the research for them.
Hairyloon

Nick wrote:
Even the Government have people to carry out the research for them.

Oh. Was that you then?
Are the findings an official secret, or are you able to tell us anything other than they "showed a conclusive link"?
Ty Gwyn

But ,did`nt also Studies from the Anti Cull group prove Non -conclusive,
Hence the Stop to the Cull in West Wales.

Does anyone really know if Global warming-Climate change is Real or a Natural concurence,?

Both sides have Scientific Experts,who`s studies come out Different,

So Who is right.
vegplot

Ty Gwyn wrote:
So Who is right.


Anyone with faith, arrogance and stubbornness.
Ty Gwyn

That just about sums up everyone in Government,or the opposition for that matter
Brownbear

I don't know about TB, but I do know that far from being endangered, there's a plague of badgers in this area.
Nick

Hairyloon wrote:
Nick wrote:
Even the Government have people to carry out the research for them.

Oh. Was that you then?
Are the findings an official secret, or are you able to tell us anything other than they "showed a conclusive link"?


No, not me, but colleagues. It's not an Official Secret, just the data was deemed unacceptable to publish, because of the political ramifications. I'll see what details I can remember.
Brownbear

Any possibility of a FoI request?
Hairyloon

Brownbear wrote:
Any possibility of a FoI request?

Are you volunteering?
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