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bowtop

Ban on wood stoves!

Check this out. Hope its ok to post.

http://offgridsurvival.com/epa-woodburningstoves-illegal/
joanne

That seems to be in the USA only - there is no such ban in the UK
Treacodactyl

Are you in the US then? While I can't see wood stoves being banned in the UK, soot is a problem that it seems we may need to do something about: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21033078

I was wondering when I read that if the cleaner burning air-wash stoves produce much less soot, in which case there would be some argument to stop people using inefficient stoves and open fires, just like we try and stop people using inefficient and dirty cars, boilers etc.
bowtop

Yeah, i just hope they dont do it over here too! Its just worrying how much we follow the US. I feel its another law to stop people being self sufficient, because the government lose money.They say its better for the environment but i dont buy it. Its just another law to take away more of our rights. And imagine how many stoves are gonna have to be scrapped. Recycling takes energy and power. Surely a stoves a stove.They burn wood. How can you say ones energy efficient and ones not? Its a metal box you put wood in to burn. I just dont get it? Next theyll be banned full stop. They've actually started banning collecting rain water in some states in america. Might not happen here yet but that could change. Hope im not offending. Smile

http://www.naturalnews.com/029286_rainwater_collection_water.html
Piggyphile

I love the comments
Quote:
Actually, you dont have a constitutional government. Most Americans mistakenly live in the democracy of the united states of America and not the republic of the united states. There has been no sitting government of the Constitutional republic. What you think is your government is the government of the democracy of the united states of america, a foreign private corporation from London England, the corporation that your president is the CEO of. Know who you are.


WHAT?
sean

I saw that one. Why haven't we got more money if we own the US? Confused
Piggyphile

It just gets better
Quote:
NO loophole is needed. The EPA are “employees” of our “employees” so all they do is moot, except for the sheeple who believe the programming lies. That politicians/employees” are leaders and lawmakers for their “EMPLOYERS” Whomever comes to my door to take my stove OR ANYTHING ELSE WILL BE DOG FOOD
Reply
Sam says:
January 13, 2013 at 1:34 pm
Right on Patrick….way to end canine hunger….Fido’s gonna be one happy puppy!!
onemanband

My interpretaion of the article is that its not an outright ban on stoves, more a policy to replace older polluting stoves with cleaner ones.
Much like the rules over here, where all new stove installations must be certified and if you live in a 'smoke free zone' you can only use the newer clean burn stoves.
Nobody is going to be knocking on your door (here or in US) to confiscate your existing old stove (unless maybe you are in a smoke free zone)
Tis a bit harsh tho not being able to sell on an old stove - would have thought rules on new installs being approved would address re-use of old stoves.

Paranoid preppers site
Hairyloon

I saw that one. Why haven't we got more money if we own the US? Confused

We don't. It is a group of private investors... if you believe the bull.
Nick

I saw that one. Why haven't we got more money if we own the US? Confused

We don't. It is a group of private investors... if you believe the bull.

Probably because they're in debt. It won't make us richer, just a better credit risk. Smile
Nick

That site is genius. Loving it. Hairyloon

Surely a stoves a stove.They burn wood. How can you say ones energy efficient and ones not? Its a metal box you put wood in to burn.
No.
A well designed burner burns far more efficiently. A poor one sends half the fuel up the chimney as unburned gas.
john of wessex

There is an air quality issue if you have a lot of homes/businesses burning any sort of fuel, especially if it isnt burnt cleanly.

But a cottage in the wilds isnt so much of an issue
oldish chris

Yeah, i just hope they dont do it over here too! where do you live? In the UK, smokeless zones were introduced way back in the 1950's because in big cities the pollution from domestic fires KILLS.

So, unless you live outside of a smoke free zone, do your neighbours with asthma or bronchitis a favour and DON'T.
Nature'sgrafter

No offence meant bowtop but be careful when you read and think about who is righting the article and there political agenda. Wanting people to use more efficient wood burners that don't pollute as much is a good thing. As to the website linked if you go to the government site and read through you will find no mention of criminal prosecutions except in certain states based on being used on high pollution days. It talks more about rolling out new cleaner and more efficient fires by making it illegal to sell out dated technology. what's wrong with that? bowtop

Pollution?Tell that to the huge factories and corporations run by the government. Am i missing the point? What happened to living traditionally? Their not doing it to help the planet or us, their doing it to take away more rights. This is how it always starts, eventually theyll tell us its bad full stop and make it illegal. Thats what they do. And like muppets we listen. How is it for the better of the planet? When you look at how much energy the big corporations use. And there are some people who are perfectly happy to have their little stove to cook on and keep warm. And their told their not allowed.Some people cant afford anything else. Darn it, im really sorry. I said i wouldnt get into a forum argument and here i am Smile NorthernMonkeyGirl

Pollution?Tell that to the huge factories and corporations run by the government. Am i missing the point? What happened to living traditionally? Their not doing it to help the planet or us, their doing it to take away more rights. This is how it always starts, eventually theyll tell us its bad full stop and make it illegal. Thats what they do. And like muppets we listen. How is it for the better of the planet? When you look at how much energy the big corporations use. And there are some people who are perfectly happy to have their little stove to cook on and keep warm. And their told their not allowed.Some people cant afford anything else. Darn it, im really sorry. I said i wouldnt get into a forum argument and here i am Smile

Starting to sound a bit cray-cray there my friend.
There are emission regulations for businesses, and go look up up ye olde London smogs to see the horrific effects of "normal people" and their pollution.
Any business owner not increasing fuel efficiency will soon go bankrupt due to higher costs.
john of wessex

i suspect that it's tied in to certain rather - to us- wierd anti government of any sorts feelings john of wessex

i suspect that it's tied in to certain rather - to us- wierd anti government of any sorts feelings bowtop

i suspect that it's tied in to certain rather - to us- wierd anti government of any sorts feelings

You got that right! Haha
Very Happy
john of wessex

There is a quote I quite like that is handy in these situations.

Now before you point out that it's from the European Convention on Human Rights, I should say that it was basically drawn up by British and American lawyers

'necessary and proportionate in a democratic society,

Try judging any proposals against that
stumbling goat

i suspect that it's tied in to certain rather - to us- wierd anti government of any sorts feelings

John - there is a certain air of Foghorn Leghorn about your posts of late.

sg
stumbling goat

i suspect that it's tied in to certain rather - to us- wierd anti government of any sorts feelings

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 13 9:19 am Post subject:
john of wessex wrote:
i suspect that it's tied in to certain rather - to us- wierd anti government of any sorts feelings


I said John - John - there is a certain air of Foghorn Leghorn about your posts of late.

sg
oldish chris

Pollution?Tell that to the huge factories and corporations run by the government. Am i missing the point? What happened to living traditionally? Their not doing it to help the planet or us, their doing it to take away more rights. This is how it always starts, eventually theyll tell us its bad full stop and make it illegal. Thats what they do. And like muppets we listen. How is it for the better of the planet? When you look at how much energy the big corporations use. And there are some people who are perfectly happy to have their little stove to cook on and keep warm. And their told their not allowed.Some people cant afford anything else. Darn it, im really sorry. I said i wouldnt get into a forum argument and here i am Smile

Starting to sound a bit cray-cray there my friend.
There are emission regulations for businesses, and go look up up ye olde London smogs to see the horrific effects of "normal people" and their pollution.
Any business owner not increasing fuel efficiency will soon go bankrupt due to higher costs. NorthernMonkeyGirl is dead right, I grew up in London in the 1950's, I know what a smog is.

I believe that people should be able to hang their laundry out to dry and when they bring it in, it should smell nice and fresh (not like a bonfire) and be perfectly clean (not covered in soot).

Dear bowtop's little rant illustrates clearly that the ability to string together a series of fairly coherent sentences and post them on a website isn't necessarily evidence that the poster is intelligent, rational and knowledgeable.

The use of woodburning stoves is restricted, as it should be. FWIW, for a few years my central heating system ran on wood, mainly scrap from a local joinery. When I scrapped it I received "positive feedback" from my neighbours.
Piggyphile

Quote:
Dear bowtop's little rant illustrates clearly that the ability to string together a series of fairly coherent sentences and post them on a website isn't necessarily evidence that the poster is intelligent, rational and knowledgeable.


This is a bit of a personal comment. Surely everyone should be free to air their views here. Bowtop is new and there is too much jumping on newbies and putting them off posting if they do not agree with the general viewpoint. Say you don't agree but don't question the posters intelligence etc
Nick

Quote:
Dear bowtop's little rant illustrates clearly that the ability to string together a series of fairly coherent sentences and post them on a website isn't necessarily evidence that the poster is intelligent, rational and knowledgeable.


This is a bit of a personal comment. Surely everyone should be free to air their views here. Bowtop is new and there is too much jumping on newbies and putting them off posting if they do not agree with the general viewpoint. Say you don't agree but don't question the posters intelligence etc

Agreed.
NorthernMonkeyGirl

Ah, I read the comment as referring to the article/website that Bowtop linked to Confused mochyn

Quote:
Dear bowtop's little rant illustrates clearly that the ability to string together a series of fairly coherent sentences and post them on a website isn't necessarily evidence that the poster is intelligent, rational and knowledgeable.


This is a bit of a personal comment. Surely everyone should be free to air their views here. Bowtop is new and there is too much jumping on newbies and putting them off posting if they do not agree with the general viewpoint. Say you don't agree but don't question the posters intelligence etc

Agreed.

Likewise.

However the US site he quotes at the top of the thread is clearly full of nutters! Laughing
Treacodactyl

Ah, I read the comment as referring to the article/website that Bowtop linked to Confused

Yes, he was.
mochyn

In that case, fine! Laughing Hairyloon

So, unless you live outside of a smoke free zone, do your neighbours with asthma or bronchitis a favour and DON'T.
Or use a smokeless approved stove.
stumbling goat

So, unless you live outside of a smoke free zone, do your neighbours with asthma or bronchitis a favour and DON'T.
Or use a smokeless approved stove.

Would it be the stove that is smokeless?

Or the fuel?

sg
tahir

There's some great stuff on that site the OP linked to. Very Happy bowtop

I think the link i posted is aimed more at people living low maintenance in the middle of no where off the grid. Their the ones who'll be affected. Most people wont have to worry. Wood burners arnt used as the main source of heating for most people especially towns and cities.I just wanted to know if anyone would be affected by this. And i have asthma. But fair enough some people wouldnt like it. Very Happy Hairyloon

So, unless you live outside of a smoke free zone, do your neighbours with asthma or bronchitis a favour and DON'T.
Or use a smokeless approved stove.

Would it be the stove that is smokeless?

Or the fuel?
Either, or both depending.
Good wood is a smokeless fuel, but only officially so if burned in an approved burner.
Officially smokeless fuels, I think you can burn anywhere.
mochyn

I'd certainly be affected by a ban on wodburners: we have two which provide all our heating, cooking and hot water. We do, indeed, live in the middle f nowhere.

However I seriously doubt that we'd ever have a law banning woodburners either here in the UK or in the US.
bowtop

would it bother you if you had to change them cos of new laws?(theoretically)although i dont know how thatd be regulated.to be honest though i do think its mainly off grid americans affected atm.just seems unfair mochyn

As I understand it, it's a move to make woodburners less polluting. That's good in my book: some are really dirty! Mithril

As I understand it, it's a move to make woodburners less polluting. That's good in my book: some are really dirty!

That would seem to be a good thing.

As an asthmatic I know only too well how smoke can affect people. Admittedly, I have an open fire, but some things are just awful. I shan't be buying compressed log things again, convenient or not - I spent the last two nights wheezing as a result of them.
Pilsbury

would it bother you if you had to change them cos of new laws?(theoretically)although i dont know how thatd be regulated.to be honest though i do think its mainly off grid americans affected atm.just seems unfair
Almost certainly any new law,would not be retroactive, they might insist on new install meeting a standard but wouldn't force anyone to scrap a working stove and install a new one.
Treacodactyl

So, unless you live outside of a smoke free zone, do your neighbours with asthma or bronchitis a favour and DON'T.
Or use a smokeless approved stove.

Would it be the stove that is smokeless?

Or the fuel?
Either, or both depending.
Good wood is a smokeless fuel, but only officially so if burned in an approved burner.
Officially smokeless fuels, I think you can burn anywhere.

I think that's right. You can burn smokeless fuel in or out of a smoke controlled zone, and you can use a non-approved smokeless fuel in an approved smokeless appliance in a smoke controlled zone.

It's gets a bit more complicated in that many people burn non-smokeless fuel in non-smokeless stoves/fire in smoke controlled zone and it's not until someone makes a complaint that action is likely to be taken. (Don't take my word for it though).

I also understand that some non-approved stoves can be just as efficient and clean burning but the manufacturers have not gone to the time and expense of getting the stove approved.

Another thing to note in relation to the first post is that an efficient stove will burn less wood for the same heat output so it may well be useful in a survival situation to have an efficient stove!
onemanband

There's some great stuff on that site the OP linked to. Very Happy

Yes it's bonkers.
Stock up on guns and ammo cos everyone else will have guns n ammo and when the SHTF they will all be out to shoot you ......for your guns n ammo .....so run to the hills where nobody else will be .......except all the other preppers with their guns.
One guy reckons he has supplies (ammo) buried every 50 miles en route to his hideyhole in the Rockies 2000miles away??!!

Not one mention of stocking up on tea and biscuits they just want to play Rambo.
alice

There's some great stuff on that site the OP linked to. Very Happy

Yes it's bonkers.
Stock up on guns and ammo cos everyone else will have guns n ammo and when the SHTF they will all be out to shoot you ......for your guns n ammo .....so run to the hills where nobody else will be .......except all the other preppers with their guns.
One guy reckons he has supplies (ammo) buried every 50 miles en route to his hideyhole in the Rockies 2000miles away??!!

Not one mention of stocking up on tea and biscuits they just want to play Rambo.
Call me intolerant if you like...I do so despise 'preppers' Rolling Eyes
toggle

There's some great stuff on that site the OP linked to. Very Happy

Yes it's bonkers.
Stock up on guns and ammo cos everyone else will have guns n ammo and when the SHTF they will all be out to shoot you ......for your guns n ammo .....so run to the hills where nobody else will be .......except all the other preppers with their guns.
One guy reckons he has supplies (ammo) buried every 50 miles en route to his hideyhole in the Rockies 2000miles away??!!

Not one mention of stocking up on tea and biscuits they just want to play Rambo.

it's not about stocking up on the things that might help you. it's about stocking up on the kit to give you the ability to take what you want from others.
vegplot


it's not about stocking up on the things that might help you. it's about stocking up on the kit to give you the ability to take what you want from others.

The mentality, as I understood it, is not to take what you want from others but to kill those who might want a share of your stash. By doing so you win the automatic right to their stash.
tahir

Not one mention of stocking up on tea and biscuits they just want to play Rambo.

Tea & Biscuits sounds a much better idea.
john of wessex

i suspect that it's tied in to certain rather - to us- wierd anti government of any sorts feelings

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 13 9:19 am Post subject:
john of wessex wrote:
i suspect that it's tied in to certain rather - to us- wierd anti government of any sorts feelings


I said John - John - there is a certain air of Foghorn Leghorn about your posts of late.

sg

There is only one thing worse than being talked about - and that is not being talked about................

Laughing Laughing Laughing
Bebo

There's some great stuff on that site the OP linked to. Very Happy

Yes it's bonkers.
Stock up on guns and ammo cos everyone else will have guns n ammo and when the SHTF they will all be out to shoot you ......for your guns n ammo .....so run to the hills where nobody else will be .......except all the other preppers with their guns.
One guy reckons he has supplies (ammo) buried every 50 miles en route to his hideyhole in the Rockies 2000miles away??!!

Not one mention of stocking up on tea and biscuits they just want to play Rambo.

Don't drink tea. I've got 1500 shotgun cartridges in the cupboard though.
oldish chris

Yeah, i just hope they dont do it over here too! Its just worrying how much we follow the US. I feel its another law to stop people being self sufficient, because the government lose money. (Point 1) They say its better for the environment but i dont buy it. Its just another law to take away more of our rights. (Point 2) And imagine how many stoves are gonna have to be scrapped. Recycling takes energy and power. (Point 3)Surely a stoves a stove.They burn wood. How can you say ones energy efficient and ones not? Its a metal box you put wood in to burn. I just dont get it? Next theyll be banned full stop. They've actually started banning collecting rain water in some states in america. Might not happen here yet but that could change. (Point 4) Hope im not offending. Smile

http://www.naturalnews.com/029286_rainwater_collection_water.html

Point 1: Similar laws in this country are to stop the bloke down the road polluting the air that you breath, nothing to do with self-sufficiency. It seems that over the pond they have similar concerns ( http://www.bouldercounty.org/env/air/pages/pollutantseffects.aspx ) So, bowtops has got asthma, mmm, so have 20 million Americans ( http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/fasthma.asp ) and half the US population live in areas with bad air.

Point 2: The right to be able to breath clean air is being given to you, not taken away.

Point 3: Recycling does take energy and power, it also causes pollution, however, it uses far less energy and causes far less pollution than dumping stuff and extracting new materials.

Point 4: With the UK government, at both national and regional levels, actively encouraging the collection of rainwater ( http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/2011/04/22/water-butts/ ) not very likely.

With my pea sized brain, pathetic attempts at logic and minimal knowledge of things environmental, it just seems that legislation to control atmospheric pollution from domestic wood-burning stoves is a good idea, and arguing that a money-grabbing government is doing it in order to prevent individuals from increasing their independence from the infrastructure is a bit unsupported.
Hairyloon

arguing that a money-grabbing government is doing it in order to prevent individuals from increasing their independence from the infrastructure is a bit unsupported.
Good clean fun though. Wink
NorthernMonkeyGirl

I never quite understood a culture that wants free access to weaponry but will not let you decide how to dry your laundry, or the contents of your uterus... Shocked Bebo

Iwill not let you decide how to dry your laundry, or the contents of your uterus... Shocked

How do you dry the contents of your uterus?
NorthernMonkeyGirl

Hey, I used a comma and everything Laughing john of wessex

I never quite understood a culture that wants free access to weaponry but will not let you decide how to dry your laundry, or the contents of your uterus... Shocked

It would be hilarious were the consequences not so serious.............
oldish chris

I never quite understood a culture that wants free access to weaponry but will not let you decide how to dry your laundry, or the contents of your uterus... Shocked The problem seems to be that the culture isn't homogeneous and that somehow, strange sub-sections seem to have an inordinate amount of influence (and presence on the internet).

It seems that the best and the worst of everything comes from the USA. Staying on topic, an enormous amount of information about atmospheric pollution comes from the 'States, and the US also seems to be the main source of anti-government hysteria about any form of control.

The problem of your uterus can easily be remedied: all foetuses should be provided with assault rifles, that will stop those devil worshipping commies from interfering with them Wink
Bebo

Hey, I used a comma and everything Laughing

I thought you were going to tell us about a novel new use for dehydrators!
Bebo

all foetuses should be provided with assault rifles, that will stop those devil worshipping commies from interfering with them Wink

You'd give something that might turn into this a gun?


NorthernMonkeyGirl


The problem of your uterus can easily be remedied: all foetuses should be provided with assault rifles, that will stop those devil worshipping commies from interfering with them Wink


*crosses legs* Shocked
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