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Silas

Boundary dispute can anyone help?

I have a problem. Could one of you legal bods help?

I share a drive with my next door neighbour; at least we share some of the drive, it splits halfway down and half goes onto my property and the other half onto hers. The part that we share is double width.

I have been having some problems with the dear lady next door in that she had started parking on the shared bit and making it very difficult for us to get our cars up and down our drive.

It all came to a head last week and I think we have sorted the problem out, but when discussing it, she boldly told me that the ‘shared’ portion of the drive was actually hers, it was not shared at all. I have two thoughts about this, firstly, part of me would be quite happy about it as if it is her drive, she would be responsible for its maintenance, but I have all the title deeds to my property and all of the conveyances and the original conveyance has the plan of the plot and the boundary of my property is clearly marked with a red line, and the line goes straight down the middle of the shared part of the drive. So, I think she is wrong.

Am I wrong?
Pilsbury

I would say if your deeds show the dotted red line goes down the center if the drive then you own that half and you are in the right, can you show her your deeds and prove its shared, you might be suprised at the number of people who dont realise such documents exist, even if they own their own houses as normally they will be lodged somewhere else and they might never of seen them.

I had a simaler thing with my neighbours after they tried to install 6ft fence panels in the fence that currently has 4ft panels in it, they claimed it was their fence and they could do what they like with it until I got out the copy of the deeds paid my bank for and showed them, they have never brought up the subject again.
Cathryn

I am not a legal bod but when we bought our house the sale did not go through until the seller took out insurance (?) to cover the metre wide strip of land between our drive and the road. It was completely unclear who owned it and had someone claimed it at some time in the future, no matter how unlikely this seemed, it could have led to lengthy costly legal discussions. So I would say, access in and out of your property is vital and that the best way, before you get proper legal advice is to keep talking and keep as good a relationship with your neighbour as possible.
Silas

Cathryn wrote:
I am not a legal bod but when we bought our house the sale did not go through until the seller took out insurance (?) to cover the metre wide strip of land between our drive and the road. It was completely unclear who owned it and had someone claimed it at some time in the future, no matter how unlikely this seemed, it could have led to lengthy costly legal discussions. So I would say, access in and out of your property is vital and that the best way, before you get proper legal advice is to keep talking and keep as good a relationship with your neighbour as possible.


Normally I would agree with you, but unfortunatly, she is Welsh.
Cathryn

Laughing b** off.
Silas

Cathryn wrote:
Laughing b** off.


Wink
marigold

Doesn't sound to me as though the drive is shared - just joined together for a short distance. Does it say anything in the deeds about sharing the cost of maintenance or about right of way over the adjoining driveway? One of the legal bods will know better than me, but if you can't resolve it amicably with your neighbour then see a solicitor sooner rather than later.

As Pilsbury says try showing her the deeds and take it from there.
Silas

marigold wrote:
Doesn't sound to me as though the drive is shared - just joined together for a short distance. Does it say anything in the deeds about sharing the cost of maintenance or about right of way over the adjoining driveway? One of the legal bods will know better than me, but if you can't resolve it amicably with your neighbour then see a solicitor sooner rather than later.

As Pilsbury says try showing her the deeds and take it from there.


No, the deeds say nothing about shared costs or shared drive - it just has the usual blurb about access to property for maintanance of gutters verges etc. I think, as you say, the drives are just joined together for a few yards.
stumbling goat

like many others i am not legally qualified to advise. those words normally precede a "but", and this is no different. my place has a garage at the rear in a block with communal access to drive over an area. no one has the right to park there, although many do at the back of their gardens, and some see it as their right. they are wrong but it does not bother me so i let it go.

when i bought the place my solicitor made a point of showing me the area where i had access to drive over, to get in and out of my garage, and read to me the covenants showing an area outlined in red on my deeds which is communally owned. some neighbours who have been in a place for a long time can think they own "a right" but they don't in law. i would check your deeds and if in any doubt speak to the solicitor that you dealt with for the purchase.

as for sending a solicitors letter to your neighbour, as i understand it once you start exchanging solicitors letters than that is classed as a neighbour dispute and would need mentioning on any sale documents, these new ones you have to fill in, and this could taint a prospective purchasers view of the property if and when you come to sell.

neighbour issues can be troubling.

good luck.

:a
Treacodactyl

Is the land registered with the land registry? That should show who owns what, for older unregistered land the deeds don't necessarily guarantee who owns what if someone else can show they've used a piece of land for a number of years. In your case, as you've used your bit of drive without them saying anything I can't see how they could claim it even if it's unregistered.
Silas

I have lived there for 20 years, this neighbour has been there for about three years - it has never been an issue till now. I have no Idea about land registry, but it does clearly state on my title deeds that it is my property, I am not unduly concerned really, but I would like to know just what the legal position is. There is no question of solicitors letters going back and forth.
Treacodactyl

If you think the drives are joined then you and your neighbour can do what you want with your sides can't you? So, they can park on their side if they wish and so can you. Can you not extend the edge of your drive if you can't reach an agreement?
Silas

Treacodactyl wrote:
If you think the drives are joined then you and your neighbour can do what you want with your sides can't you? So, they can park on their side if they wish and so can you. Can you not extend the edge of your drive if you can't reach an agreement?


Well, this is the problem. Both drives, but mine in particular, are quite big, there is no need to park in the middle. I can park three cars in a row without inconveniencing her in the slightest, but if she decised to park in the middle, she may just, technically be on her half but it does make life difficult, and there is no need for it.

The parking problem seems to have been resolved, I would just like some clarification regarding the ownership thing.
resistance is fertile

If the red line on the deeds goes down the middle of the hard private way then there would appear to be no 'shared ownership' just a common surface over both parties property.

This would mean she can do as she pleases as long as its not actually on your property.

Slightly widening your, non boundary, edge would give you greater access width, if it was a real problem.

If you wanted to throw money at a lawyer there is probably a case for claiming her activity is curtailing your ability to use and enjoy your property, or something, but that sounds like a nightmare can of worms to crack open.

You could always put up a fence/chain etc just inside your half, but again if things have settled down probably not advisable.
Mary-Jane

I'll alert Dr. Rob Silas - he's your man for this sort of thing...
Silas

Mary-Jane wrote:
I'll alert Dr. Rob Silas - he's your man for this sort of thing...


Thanks very much.
sean

Oooh, is M-J going to project a big silhouette of the scales of justice onto the clouds?
Dr Rob

This is a very common arrangement especially with newer houses on an estate. Either one party owns the whole drive subject to rights of way in favour of the neighbour or they each own half (red line down the middle) subject to reciprocal rights of way. Neither can in law obstruct or interfere with the rights of the other. There should also be specific rights of maintenance.

If you have title deeds in your possession it sounds as if you bought the house some time ago ie before compulsory registration of title at the Land Registry, and to advise properly I would need to see a copy of the conveyance which originally granted/reserved the rights (not necessarily the conveyance to you although that document will make reference to the rights).
Mary-Jane

sean wrote:
Oooh, is M-J going to project a big silhouette of the scales of justice onto the clouds?


Laughing Laughing Well it worked!
Silas

Dr Rob wrote:
This is a very common arrangement especially with newer houses on an estate. Either one party owns the whole drive subject to rights of way in favour of the neighbour or they each own half (red line down the middle) subject to reciprocal rights of way. Neither can in law obstruct or interfere with the rights of the other. There should also be specific rights of maintenance.

If you have title deeds in your possession it sounds as if you bought the house some time ago ie before compulsory registration of title at the Land Registry, and to advise properly I would need to see a copy of the conveyance which originally granted/reserved the rights (not necessarily the conveyance to you although that document will make reference to the rights).


Hi Dr Rob

Thanks for this. The house was built in 1968, it had two previous owners and I been there for the past 20 years. The original conveyance has the plot mapped on it showing all neighbouring plots. My plot is outlined in red and reffered to in the original conveyance deed - the red line goes straight through the centre of the drive. I am sure I bought the property before compulsory land registration and I have never had any doubts about ownership til now.
gil

Again, another useful thread for folk.
Thanks, Silas - hope you get it sorted satisfactorily for all concerned.

I'm moving it to Finannce and Property so it's easier to find in future.
Dr Rob

Silas - are you able to scan the 1968 conveyance (including plan) and send it to me at cra@aber.ac.uk? If there's a red line down the middle of the drive there should be corresponding rights of way/maintenance.

R
Silas

Dr Rob wrote:
Silas - are you able to scan the 1968 conveyance (including plan) and send it to me at cra@aber.ac.uk? If there's a red line down the middle of the drive there should be corresponding rights of way/maintenance.

R


I don't have a scanner myself, but I know a man who does - I'll do it as soon as I can - thanks again for all your help.
vegplot

We have a shared path around the back of the house. Even though we own the path our neighbour has access rights and we can't block or obstruct it.
Silas

Just a huge thanks to Dr Rob (and MJ of course) for sorting this one out for me. I am sending you a photocopy of a £20.00.

Thanks again.
mark

ownership is as per the deeds.

Right of access is another thing ... if the route is the only vehicular access to to your property then ownership properly implies a right to drive over the land and a duty to maintain it BUT POSSIBLY ALSO A DUTY to ensure that it is kept clear for access, including not installing locked gate, not leaving obstacles like parked cars that might block access etc.

Of course if you don't have recourse to the law you could just start doing the some times.
Dr Rob

Silas wrote:
I am sending you a photocopy of a £20.00


Guineas, if you don't mind
Silas

Dr Rob wrote:
Silas wrote:
I am sending you a photocopy of a £20.00


Guineas, if you don't mind


OK Guineas it is Wink

You are a very god man.
Dr Rob

Silas wrote:
Dr Rob wrote:
Silas wrote:
I am sending you a photocopy of a £20.00


Guineas, if you don't mind


OK Guineas it is Wink

You are a very god man.


God? No need to go that far
Silas

Dr Rob wrote:
Silas wrote:
Dr Rob wrote:
Silas wrote:
I am sending you a photocopy of a £20.00


Guineas, if you don't mind


OK Guineas it is Wink

You are a very god man.


God? No need to go that far


Good God!
Mary-Jane

Dr Rob wrote:
Silas wrote:

You are a very god man.


God? No need to go that far


Oh don't encourage him Silas... Rolling Eyes
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