| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| cab |
Bristol is 'Cycling City'Story here:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/7462791.stm With private finance, the cost of a mile of new motorway is somewhere between thirty and seventy million pounds. Nationally, across ten towns, we're seeing a total expenditure of one hundred million pounds. And I'll wager that a fair proportion of that is to be spent on green paint to give the false impression that cyclists should be in the gutter. A fine example of little more than lip service being paid to sustainable transport in the UK. |
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| orangepippin |
Any encouragement of cycling should be a good thing. Unfortunately cyclists don't pay petrol taxes, so there's only so far the government will go on this kind of thing. | ||||||
| cab |
Absolutely. But to encourage cycling by painting patches of road green is akin to encouraging good eating by handing out free angel delight. Its backwards, irrational, uninformed policy. Spend that money publicising how motorists are expected to behave towards cyclists and on prosecuting assaults and attempted assaults by motorists and you'll have a greater impact. You get safe cycling through numbers, and you get numbers by changing motorist behaviour, not by building cycle lanes. |
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| JB |
Of course what will happen is that they if they don't spend all the money on green paint they will build a convoluted cycle route which double the length of cyclist journeys and tries to create an impression that cycles shouldn't be on roads. | ||||||
| vegplot |
Park and ride, but on cycles. | ||||||
| vegplot |
Another issue with cycle lanes is that it engenders (if that's the right word) motorists into thinking that cycles only belong in cycle lanes and are fair game if they are not. "The deceased wasn't in the cycle lane, therefore I'm not at fault". | ||||||
| Nick |
They have that in Barcelona (and, I'm sure, a million other cities). Publically provided bikes, which are so offensive in style so as to be un-nickable, provided free for anyone who wants them, just left at cycle racks across the city.
Course, more than anything else, they have the weather to make cycling functional. |
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| cab |
Indeed. Its amazing just how hostile you can face not being in the cycle lane (which is a valid, even necessary choice). |
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| Brownbear |
I've noticed a lot more cyclists during the fuel strike. Some rode out in the road and made the cars treat them like a vehicle, but the inexperienced hugged the gutter and risked being mown down.
Perhaps the time is approaching when there should be a rider-testing, bicycle-MOT and registration system for bicycles used on the roads. |
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| cab |
For various reasons, this might fail in the UK. My biggest concern is theft; the average bike on our roads is cheaper than other EU countries, not 'cos we get better deals but because we buy s14t bikes for less money. To be workable, this system requires a more durable build, and I think that'll be an attractive bike to nick. But in essence, if it works, its a great idea.
So do we; we're such a nation of whingers when it comes to the slightest bit of rain. Most days the weather is just fine for cycling; even rain is rare at commuting times. |
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| vegplot |
Unhappily I tend to agree. |
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| cab |
And the increased number of riders rather implies that a lot of car journeys can be feasilbly done by bicycle most of the time. And you're right about road positioning too; far too many inexperienced riders get put off before they become experienced riders, largely due to poor treatment on the roads, which can be minimised with good vehicular cycling.
I'd love to see such training widely available and encouraged. Motorists often say they'd like to see it. The reality would be that most of those motorists who say they want it would HATE it. Imagine our major cities all full of vehicular cyclists; we'd need no speed cameras, we'd need no sleeping policemen, we'd have safe and controlled roads going at a sensible pace. And while your opinion here is well reasoned and entirely sensible, such a scenario would be considered unacceptable by the typical British motorist. |
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| vegplot |
I somehow think that some idiot would bring in a 4mph speed limit and we'd need someone walking in front waving a flag or blowing a whistle in order to keep pedestrians safe from speeding marauding cyclists. |
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| Brownbear |
I was suggesting the training of riders and the certification of machines to ensure they were suitable (no monkey-bikes ridden with knees sticking out as the rider wobbles along) and safe (lights, brakes etc) for the road, not the banning of cars and their total replacement by bicycles. Any sane driver would be delighted if bikes obeyed all the rules of the road. And any sane cyclist would be delighted if the law protected their interests as well as it does those of motorists. EDIT: speed cameras, road tax and fuel taxes are considered unacceptable by most motorists, but that doesn't stop them being imposed. |
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| cab |
I agree, that would be nice. Imagine all cyclists trained to adopt safe and visible road positions, so that the standard means of cycling is as per the safety manual (i.e. cyclecraft). I'd love it; 90% of motorists I'll wager would hate it.
The thing is, many motorists don't know the rules of the road for cyclists. It is widely believed that cyclists should be very close in to the gutter (as I recently had reinforced by someone hurling a beer can and yelling obscenities at me, and by another who followed me sounding his horn, threatening me and yelling 'paedophile'). In fact, a cyclist CAN legally ride there, it just happens that this is the least safe place to be on most roads. I should think that many motorists would love to see cyclists riding vehicularly, but a far too sizeable proportion get rather aggressive at the idea. Cycle training, to ensure safety and good standards, is training riders to claim the road. Bottom line is that this is not always viewed by motorists as a good thing. Regarding legality and cyclists being protected by law, well, by law we've got great protection. What we lack is enforcement. |
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| Nick |
The Spanish bikes were horrible. Chunky, made of girders, bright white, with advertising/brand logos welded to them. They worked as transport, not a fashion accessory. If you turned up at the swing park with your fellow hoodies to drink warm sangria on one of these, you'd be laughed out of town. |
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| cab |
You'd have thought... Next time you're in Cambridge (an odd town for the UK because we've got so many bikes, hence its a good one to look at to see what may happen if cycling becomes bigger here) have a look to see what bikes the hoodies are riding. You might imagine it would be shiny suspension (cheap) mountain bikes; usually its whatever rustbucket has wheels and pedals that'll go round. |
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| gnome |
i must be ill or something. once again i find myself agreeing with cab. a couple of years ago we were called in as consultants by a certain council to research and reccomend how they can become even more cycle friendly. their efforts so far had been a cycle rack in the town centre, a row of cycle cabins outside the town hall, a white painted cycle lane on a very busy stretch of road that didnt appear at all safe, and an abandoned cycle path full of broken glass and debris. they were actually proud of their acheivements. needless to say, our reccomendations were not followed up. | ||||||
| Frewen |
Didn't Cambridge have one of those public bike rack park schemes 20 years ago?
I'm sure they did - but I can't remember why it failed 
I think people took the bikes apart for spares ? |
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| cab |
Naah, you're just coming to your senses.
The way forward for such planning is quite clear really. Go ask cyclists. Go ask the ones who stick it out, day in, day out, to get from A to B. Go talk to them about how they overcame their initial fears in traffic. Go ask them about how they would improve cycling provision and make cycling more attractive. They'll not say that they want more green painted stripes on roads 
The thing about cycle lanes is that plannerA can talk to councillorB and say 'look, heres what we can do with your budget, isn't it nice', and councillorB can say yes, that'll do... Said council probably also funds a Pedestrian and Cycling officer, who will undoubtedly say 'no, that won't encourage high volume, compliant cycling', but that person just gets shot down by planners and councillors who don't know their a***s from their elbows. And thats even true in Cambridge 
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| cab |
Dunno. Only moved here '99. |