| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| vegplot |
CalibreI'm applying for a variation on my Firearms Certificate for a larger calibre rifle for deer stalking and target shooting. I've got my sights set on (forgive pun) 7x57 (7mm Mauser) as it has good ballistics and moderate recoil. I've tried other calibres and find the .308 quite harsh, for me any way. Any thoughts anyone? |
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| Brownbear |
The 7mm Mauser is not always the easiest weapon to find, or to find the ammunition for.
I'd suggest that the 6.5x55 Swedish is worth a look. Fairly flat-shooting, and much more tractable a beast than the .308. In fact, it is noted for its moderate recoil, and is a popular stalking calibre so ammunition supply is not a problem. I use the 6.5x55 and the .308, and both do the job well enough. In fact, if it wasn't for wild boar I'd probably get rid of the .308 and just use the Swede. |
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| vegplot |
I'd rather taken to the Ruger No.1. Our local dealer has one in 7x57 they say ammunition isn't a problem, expensive but not a problem. The Ruger No.1 isn't everyones cup of tea though. However, the 6.5x55 looks, on paper at least, an attractive proposition so thanks very much for your input. | ||||||
| Brownbear |
One note of caution - if you're planning to have the rifle threaded for moderator, be aware that this will invalidate any guarantee from the manufacturer if you find the thing chucking rounds all over the place.
Steyr-Mannlicher rifles come threaded at the factory, and have a rustproof Mannox coating, plus the superb safe bolt system. I've tried Tikka (rubbish), Sako (very good but very expensive) Ruger (didn't care for the clunky bolt and breech mechanism), and Remington (the Nissan Micra of the rifle world), but now all three of my centrefires are Steyr-Mannlicher and I wouldn't change them for the world. (I haven't got shares in Steyr BTW, I just think they're absolutely superb). |
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| vegplot |
Thanks for that I've not heard of them. I'll do some research. | ||||||
| KILLITnGRILLIT |
 I have 2x Tikkas (and a CZ) and like them very much, except for the varmint stock, but that was always going to go anyway, they shoot straight from the box and many deer and vermin have fallen to them both.
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| vegplot |
What calibre(s) do you use and for what? |
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| KILLITnGRILLIT |
Tikkas are T3 - 6.5x55(in photo) for larger deer and fox
Tikka 595 - .222 for roe deer(I live in Scotland) and also fox/crow/feral cat. CZ .22 rf for all small "game" and vermin. |
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| Erikht |
I am very fond of Mausers, and have shot quite a lot with a 6.5. A very nice gun. Otherwise, my weapon of choice is a M98 7.62x63 (30.06). It is a calibre it is easy to get ammo to, and if you load yourself, you can get quite a few cartridges with very light bullets (I saw one at 90 grain), who shoots very straight and is good for smaller game. You don't have to shoot with a 150 grains bullet with a 7.62 (or my favourite, Norma's 200 grain for Elking). | ||||||
| RichardW |
I know nothing about this but after the above post I had a thought.
Why do you have so many diff calibers when you can get amunition with different loads & bullet weights? Would one weapon with a selection of ammo work? Justme |
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| Brownbear |
No. |
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| vegplot |
No, that's why there are so many calibres available. Each has it's own niche. You can tweak the same cartridge with different bullet weights and powder charges but only within certain limits. You wouldn't really want to use a .45-70 for 25 metres paper target shooting when a .22LR is far more suitable (and many times more cheaply). There wouldn't be much, if anything, left of a munjac if hit by a .50 BMG. There's also human factor some people can't shoot heavy hitting rounds simply because it's too uncomfortable for them. This is why I asked the question I did, well in part it is. For me the .308 is too harsh for others it's ideal. Horses for courses type of thing. Hope this helps 
This is why I'm asking |
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| Erikht |
not really, but you should be completely covered with 3 rifles, if you choose them well. I would choose a .22, a .243 and my old 30.06. A gun for every eason. You might want to exchange the 30.06 for a 6.5. With a twelve bore shotgun on top, you're set. |
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| vegplot |
I shot a 7.62 NATO tonight. That's about the same as a .308. Noisy beast. | ||||||
| vegplot |
Unless you want fun shooting then there's nothing like a .357 Magnum underlever and a blackpowder pistol 
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| Erikht |
That should be the same as a 30.06. |
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| vegplot |
Wikipedia says that they are interchangeable but it does go onto say the ballistically it is similar to the 30-06. I stand corrected.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62x51mm_NATO |
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| RichardW |
I can see the 3 rifle thing its just when you see caliburs like .22 & .222 does that .002 make that much difference?
Justme |
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| Brownbear |
A .22 is a rimfire bunny gun, a .222 is a centrefire suitable for fox and small deer. a .22 has an effective range of about 80 yards at 1050 feet per second; a .222 has an effective range of, for the average marksman, 200-300 yards at a velocity of something like 2400 feet per second. The numbers don't just mean the bore of the barrel, they also refer to the cartridge from which it is fired. The .22LR, .22 Short, .22WMR, .220, .222, .223 and 22-250 all fire a .22 bullet but at varying speeds and with varying trajectories. |
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| sean |
It's all got very complicated since the days of short, long and hornet. | ||||||
| KILLITnGRILLIT |
Very complicated - http://www.reloadbench.com/cart.html run of the mill calibres. http://www.reloadbench.com/cartw.html and the "wildcats" !!! |
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| Erikht |
Well, not necessarily. You will find that both the 7.62X63 and the 7.62X51 are used by NATO (though they are both being dumped by most countries for something smaller). The 7.62X63 is the 30.06, and that was the one I had in mind. The 7.62X51 is a different calibre, and thus nobody stand corrected. The 30-06 should deliver a harder punch, if not by much. It is a very versatile calibre, with bullet weight ranging from 55 grains to 220 grains. The ballistics will differ with the different bullet weights and loads. |
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| vegplot |
That's a heck of a bullet weight range. Very impressive. I need to learn more about this.
We shoot in a tunnel. Large calibre's in high velocity tend to sound like artillery shells. I found staying on target with the 7.62 very difficult due to the recoil, but the grin. 
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| KILLITnGRILLIT |
The problem with bullet weights that vary so much is the rifling may not stabilise all weights(definately won`t be IMHO). Another thing to keep in mind is that some of the larger weights may not fit the magazine or may jam when chambering. My .222 loves 50 grainers, but throws 55`s all over the place. |
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| Erikht |
You have to find out what suits your rifle, and I would rather shoot 55 grain bullets with a .343 than a 30.06. But if you load your own cartridges, and use the loading tables well, the 30.06 (or for that matter a .308) is a far more versatile rifle than most people give it credit for. This is also true for the 6.5. That is a big enough calibre to shoot anything you can fin in Europe, though modern hunters might want something larger for dangerous game like bears, boar and different kinds of bison's and musk ox. | ||||||
| vegplot |
I've sent off for my variation. In the end I went for a 7x57 primarily because I have paid a deposit on a Ruger no.1 an awful lot less than the RRP (it isn't a grey import and it's not secondhand either). T
hanks for all your advice, much appreciated. |
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| vegplot |
It's been nearly a month now since variation was submitted. I rang the firearms dept. and they advised I contact the firearms officer. He said there's a 4-5 month backlog on renewals and variations were being out to the bottom of the pile. There's only two FO's in the whole of north West wales who have to deal with around 16,000 licence holders. They need to visit each holder every time there's a variation or renewal.
I said I need to get the variation preocess quickly as I had a need and lo and the next day he's sitting at the kitchen table conducting the interview. 5 days later he phones me to say it's been processed and awaiting final signature.
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| KILLITnGRILLIT |
OK then, what optics are you putting on it then, if any ??
........welcome to the money pit !!! . |
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| Erikht |
Off....... That's the expensive part. | ||||||
| Brownbear |
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Discounts on all scopes, rings and bases, not to mention binoculars, available to Downsizers from Brownbear's optics shop. [/ ]
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| vegplot |
I was going to fit my Leupold VXIII from my .22 (which is a bit of on overkill) but the Ruger only has 1" rings. In the end I got a Japanese 'plain jane' scope (excellent optics) for £99. It's a little short as the mounts don't offer great flexibility. It's okay for now though. Brownbear might be able to advise when I see him on Sunday. I'm pleased so far, took the beast down the range on Sunday and zeroed in at 100 metres (still needs a bit of a fine tune), I'll visit the dentist later to put my teeth back in. earthyvirgo took a few shots and she thinks it has a slight power edge over the .22.  It's noisy in the tunnel.
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