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robkb

Charcoal burners in Cumbria - pictures

A photo essay from today's Graun:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2014/apr/10/charcoal-burners-in-cumbria-in-pictures
dpack

nice but i hope the grauniad mean low carbon footprint rather than low carbon bbq charcoal which would be as much use as a chocolate poker Laughing Laughing Laughing
joanne

Oooh thanks for that - Yealand Redmayne is just up the road from me
Bodger

Been there, done that. salute

http://forum.downsizer.net/viewtopic.php?t=30109&highlight=charcoal

http://forum.downsizer.net/viewtopic.php?t=30198&highlight=charcoal


Hard work but great fun.
Mistress Rose

Been there, done that, on our 3rd kiln of charcoal for the year so far, and may well need to do another firing next week too.

I don't think it is low carbon charcoal either; certainly lower carbon footprint than imported, and less additives too. Ours is almost pure carbon, although I don't have an analysis at present. No binders, stabilizers or lighter fluid added or needed, as is the case with all British lumpwood charcoal.
Ty Gwyn

I doubt very much its pure carbon ,as it would be hard to light,

The highest carbon i have heard of was 98%,and that was from Anthracite produced in Ireland.
Mistress Rose

Not sure Ty Gwyn, but don't forget that charcoal has a very open structure so there is plenty of surface area for the heat to affect. British charcoal is very light in weight and can be lit with just a cigarette lighter if you really want to show off.
Bodger

We should perhaps be talking about the carbon footprint of the charcoal that we use on our BBQ's. Other than the comparatively small quantities of locally produced charcoal, the majority of the stuff that we use comes from mangrove swamps and the like from hundreds if not thousands of miles away.
Its also tends to be rubbish at lighting etc when compared with the home produced stuff.
robkb

Which is why we tend to buy several bags at a time direct from the producer when we go to woodfairs.
Ty Gwyn

Agree Bodger,the carbon footprint is the crux of the matter,similar to the bio fuel power stations obtaining the wood chips from the Southern states of the US,
But like anything else in this country,its cheap and that`s what sell`s in bulk.
Mistress Rose

I am glad to say, like most British charcoal producers, that our sales are steadily increasing. We tend to find that once people start to use British charcoal, they stay with it as it is economical and easy lighting. They can then preen themselves about being 'green' as well. Of course there are those that choose it because of its low carbon footprint as well.

Our charcoal is made from wood from the same wood, and is currently being fired and packaged on the same site, so virtually zero 'wood miles' to point of bagging. Only extra fuel used is to deliver it to an outlet or show.

A few years ago there was a big drop in imported charcoal as a lot came from Namibia and they had horrific floods which destroyed their infrastructure, so the charcoal just couldn't get out. This gave British charcoal a boost, as any remaining imported stuff was more expensive, so we were competitive.
bulworthy project

There are many reasons that people buy their first bag of british charcoal, but so long as that charcoal was made well they buy subsequent bags because it is a lot better than the imported stuff.

No additives, simply carbonised wood.
Treacodactyl

Anyone had a play with a commercial charcoal retort? I gather they're meant to be more efficient than a traditional kiln, producing more charcoal per given weight of wood.
Ty Gwyn

What`s a Charcoal Retort Treacodactyl?
dpack

this

with a cracker as well many things are possible
Ty Gwyn

Thank`s interesting,

The Charcoal maker`s here`s comments of the kit would be interesting.

I would have thought the opening would have been better on the back,not facing the trailer hitch,bashing ones shin`s loading and unloading.
Mistress Rose

I haven't had a play with the retort, but we know Alan Waters quite well. He is a member of our Coppice Group.

I don't think the tow hitch causes any particular problems Ty Gwyn, and may be a useful stand for a container like a dumpy sack when pulling out the charcoal.

As I understand the retorts are far more efficient; they produce more charcoal from the wood as not so much is burnt as 'fuel' during the firing process. The gasses given off by the wood are used to fuel the burning rather than going up the chimney so less wood is burnt. The wood can be put in in full length rather than being cut up to fit snugly in the kiln. The main drawback is that they are expensive compared to a ring kiln.

Perhaps we will go that way one day when we can afford it. We have been on one visit to both types of retort shown in the article some years ago before we started charcoal buning, and are hoping to go on another one later this year.

I would agree with you Bulworthy that once people have tried British charcoal, they tend to stick with it. There is still plenty of room for expansion to oust the imported stuff for us charcoal burners. Very Happy
Ty Gwyn

Looking at them photo`s,if a base was placed across the hitch to support a dumpy bag,access would be further restricted,plus the hitch is to high to gain full use of a dumpy bag.

The principal makes sense,using the gases produced to increase heat,on a similar principal to a catalytic converter.

A scrap yard challenge is called for.
onemanband


I would have thought the opening would have been better on the back,not facing the trailer hitch,bashing ones shin`s loading and unloading.


Looks like there's a door at each end.
Treacodactyl

IIRC some people use an old fashioned charcoal kiln and use old oil drums inside to turn it into a form of retort. I can't remember where I saw the details but I recall old waste wood placed outside the drums but inside the kiln was used to start the process off and then the gasses given off by the wood inside the drums was burn off before leaving the kiln.
bulworthy project

We haven't played with a retort either, but it is hard to see how the cost of the retort on a trailer can be justified. The only people that we know of who have bought one have used grant funding.

From what we've heard they cost about 10k to buy and then they have moving parts to go wrong with the associated ongoing costs.

Our kiln cost us £600 second hand and it has nothing to go wrong except replacing a bit of box section steel every 10 years or so.

We would be interested in looking at designs for homemade static retorts though. If you could knock one up for less than a couple of grand that was fairly robust it might work out.
bulworthy project

On another note, if they really are processing 1600 tons of wood into charcoal, that could make a major difference to the local market for charcoal.

That would be worth getting some grant funding for a big commercial retort.
joanne

Turns out I know someone who works with that group. My friend's daughter's fiancé, I've known him for years and years and I knew he worked with a coppicing group but wasn't sure were.

Funnily enough I was going to ask him about ordering logs for next autumn, guess I'll be buying Charcoal from him as well now Very Happy
Mistress Rose

Yes, I think that Alan got partial grant funding for his retort. The big ones with the double burners aren't on a trailer, and I have seen them too. I don't think they have a door at each end.

It does make a small difference to the local market, but not as much as you would think. Alan works less than 20 miles from us, the other people with the big retorts 30-40 miles away, and we don't find we lose out to them at all. Yes, they have some outlets near us, but we have some near them; depends on who got in first.

If we got a retort it would be to increase our efficiency and to increase our production. I am sure the local market could take it as there are plenty of places within 20 miles of us that sell imported charcoal (excluding supermarkets etc. which wouldn't buy from us). We would have to try for some grant funding too.

I have heard of people making their own. I have looked it up on the internet, but not sure how effective they would be.
Barefoot Andrew

Meanwhile, from the same Grauniad page:-

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/video/2014/apr/11/duct-tape-paraplegic-surfer

A.
bulworthy project

It does make a small difference to the local market, but not as much as you would think. Alan works less than 20 miles from us, the other people with the big retorts 30-40 miles away, and we don't find we lose out to them at all. Yes, they have some outlets near us, but we have some near them; depends on who got in first.

If we got a retort it would be to increase our efficiency and to increase our production. I am sure the local market could take it as there are plenty of places within 20 miles of us that sell imported charcoal (excluding supermarkets etc. which wouldn't buy from us). We would have to try for some grant funding too.


We don't see it as a bad thing to have more charcoal being produced locally. The more people that are making it and making a noise about it, the more that people are aware of the reasons to buy local charcoal.

We don't know how much charcoal Alan and Jo make, but 1600 tons of wood would produce over 200 tons of charcoal even using a ring kiln. That would effect the market quite a lot, potentially in a good way. dpack

will the retort also make part charred wood for burner fuel.?

iirc a product between charcoal and wet wood makes good fuel from sticks etc bulworthy project

will the retort also make part charred wood for burner fuel.?

iirc a product between charcoal and wet wood makes good fuel from sticks etc

It will you just don't leave the wood in so long. We see one of the upsides of making charcoal that you have a good supply of "brown ends" for the woodburner. Mistress Rose

You might like to have a look at the Hampshire Coppice Craftsmen's Group page on charcoal. http://www.hampshirecoppice.co.uk/charcoal
It gives instructions for use and the advantages of British charcoal and there is a link to the Hampshire charcoal standard.

Bulworthy, yes, if people become aware of British charcoal and its advantages it is a good thing. The more smaller outlets there are selling it, the better. Not only does it mean a good product is available, but it gives the supermarkets with their lighter fluid soaked imported stuff a run for their money.

We usually use the brown ends in the top of the kiln so they end up as charcoal or in the bottom for fuel. We do firewood as well, so we tend to have the really odd shaped or overlength bits that we can't put in loads for our fire. Mutton

Historically charcoal was a major fuel - medieval and 17th century - and was carried out of woodland on pack horses. Much lighter than carrying out the wood of course. Mainly used for cooking - but in kitchens not barbecues. Smile

Can also be used in a brazier for indoor heating once you have it well lit and glowing - very little smoke. Only safe in draughty period houses or canvas tents. Very Happy Mistress Rose

Don't use charcoal inside a tent or modern house. A few people have been killed over the last few years by carbon monoxide from barbecues kept inside a tent even when they thought the charcoal was out. As you say, draughty period properties are probably safe, but be very careful.

Charcoal was used for smelting and working iron and steel too. It wasn't until the 18th century that the use of coke was perfected, and charcoal was used exclusively. We have visited a Wealden furnace, or the remains of it, where ironstone from the surrounding area was smelted. They channelled the water through a series of 'hammer ponds' and cut the wood from the surrounding area. The charcoal was made near the cutting and transported to the furnace. They reckoned that they couldn't transport the charcoal more than about 5 miles over the poor roads in a horse and cart without it falling apart, so all charcoal burning was carried out within that radius. The peak of production at this site was 17th century. The woodland is still there, so in this case, as in many others is 'a wood that pays is a wood that stays'
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