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Lorrainelovesplants

Cider down the sink

...or rather down the drain outside.
220 litres.

Not happy with it - just not good enough, so Ive messed with it this afternoon, gone back to it and decided - no, its just not going to reflect my expectations.

So, its gone.

Im a bit cross.
dpack

Crying or Very sad

tis better to be ruthless than to ruin your reputation or put another way tis better you pour it away than the folk who just bought it pour it away.

i might have been tempted to "warm"it a little and see if the "product"was worth doing the whole batch Wink

some very nice calvados is made from undrinkable cider.
Lorrainelovesplants

Thats why I tweaked and twiddled with it...
but it just wasnt good enough.

Reputation is everything. I just need one person to say, 'oooh yuk' and thats it.

Ah well, I do have high standards....


goin't'pub later. Crying or Very sad
Shan

Next time that happens, let me send you some vinegar mothers. Rather make vinegar than tip it down the drain.
dpack

Next time that happens, let me send you some vinegar mothers. Rather make vinegar than tip it down the drain.


that might be another good idea to try ,if it was truly vile even deicing fluid is a bit of a push
sean

If you want to try the cider vinegar thing *don't* keep them/it anywhere near where you're storing/bottling your cider.
Lorrainelovesplants

No, Ive been told - get rid of quick - if it did go to vinegar its goodbye barrell, goodbye pump and also been told not to have it in the same building as it 'travels in the air',
so first thing tomorrow THE BIG CLEAN.
Behemoth

In our local Chinese supermarket they sell cider vinegar heavily sweetened in a can. As pop.
dpack

In our local Chinese supermarket they sell cider vinegar heavily sweetened in a can. As pop.


have you tried it ? Laughing Laughing Laughing
Behemoth

I didn't.... tahir

I've tried it (not from B's local though), had worse beverages Behemoth

Little Behemoth didnt.

I have a photo on my phone but lack the skills to glue it here.
dpack

Laughing

i will try most drinks at least once but i recon i will give it a miss
Lorrainelovesplants

Better day.
I have just tasted 2 batches - one dry and one medium, and

They are bloody lovely!
Lorrainelovesplants

woohoo! Laughing sean

Phew. Smile dpack

good news .

have you worked out what went wrong with that batch ?
Nick

Better day.
I have just tasted 2 batches - one dry and one medium, and

They are bloody lovely!

A Glaswegian, drinking before lunchtime. Well I never...
Shan

Question is, has she stopped tasting them yet? Laughing Lorrainelovesplants

tasting isnt drinking. Laughing

Its a serious, scientific business. I have to keep a level head, make loads of notes (in case I forget) and I have a taste panel.
John is hopeless - his palate is too sweet, so he's not on it.

Panel currently:
Me
Kieran (young, undefiled tastebuds)
David (serious cider drinker)
Dan (early twenties, drinks a LOT)
Charlie (female, not really keen on cider due to bad past experiences)
Richard & Ollie (from the pub - professional experience)
Colin(cider drinker - beard & jumper)

Im looking for another female locally....just to balance it....

So, I narrow down a few blends and try them with SMALL quantities, and then look to people's comments and preferences.
mousjoos

If you've included someone with a "beard & jumper" there are possibly no higher qualifications

this means you're serious

you will go far
Lorrainelovesplants

Dpack -
Possible reasons for failure -
quite an early batch, so could have been a high fermentation temperature which stresses the yeast and creates off flavours
OR
a cleanliness/air issue. Everything was fine till I combined 2 batches. This is the moment when either a minute amount of bacteria got in OR when air has been the cause.

So - memo to self regarding sanitising hoses between transfer and to use a blanket of CO2 in future to prevent oxygen getting in.
Lorrainelovesplants

The beard and jumper are high qualifications indeed.

The comments at tastings are interesting.
last time -
'This really is good'
'Its much better than that crap from up the road'
'Ill log your trees in exchange for a 10L box'
'When is the next tasting?'
'This glass really is too small to get an idea'
'I can come over and help you'

Laughing
Falstaff

You don't actually say what the problem with the taste was lorraine, but you do mention "going to vinegar" and "the bacteria", so I'm thinking you were getting that odd Acetone taste (Nail varnish remover) which is the first steps towards vinegar and with which any of us who have done the home winemaking / brewing for a long time will know.

I've had it "pop up" once from an otherwise normal fermentation and I assumed (and still do) that a vinegar fly got in.

The other time it pops up regularly is if you use "Turbo-yeast". I've explored that situation with some fairly serious friends and what we believe happens is that "Turbo yeast" is so strong that when it gets towards the end of the sugar, the yeast starts on the yeast cells which have died and attacks the cellulose cell walls in a process like autolysis, and the by-product is something very like acetone.

The only ways we have found to stop "turbo yeast" producing the acetone twang, is to keep feeding sugar until it terminates the yeast at something over 20% abv, or to kill the yeast before the sugar is all used up.

So either of your explanations could be true if the yeast on your apples had a strong and a weak component perhaps ? Or you say you mixed two lots ? If one was nearly finished fermenting and the yeast was dying off and the other was going like a train, that active yeast could possibly have attacked the dead / dying yeast in the other ?

Dunno, but for me I'd never use any of the utensils or containers again for alcohol production Sad

Glad it was only the one barrel that was off though - and I'm sure the drain was the right place for it. Cool
Lorrainelovesplants

I never use turbo yeast.

It was a smell/taste of pear drops. So, yes, I thought acetone too. Now Im pretty clean fetishy, so I am thinking it was a combination of high temp (it was in the high 20's during the fermenting), and a bit of air during racking. I did have a problem at racking, which will NOT happen again.
The move from small scale to bigger has been interesting.

Luckily, Ive avoided the full vinegar thing, and thank God didnt use my pump, but that barrell is going to be used as a wter butt now. Its been scoured, steamed and heavily sulphited to prevent any air contamination, but I cant risk it.

This episode has seen me flush over 600 away.
Dont want to do that again in a hurry.
Mistress Rose

Pear drops is ethyl acetate. Not sure how that relates to the process, but distict from acetone. Lorrainelovesplants

anyway, moving away from sad batches....
the one I bottled and pasteurised yesterday is loverly.
About 5% (awaiting test confirmation), and light, soft tannins, fruity taste, just medium, and moreish.... Should be a good seller.

My bespoke pasteuriser isnt completed yet, so I spent hours doing pasteurisation in 2 VIGO round pasteurisers. have it off pat now, but it still takes a LONG time. Started at 2pm and finished after 9pm last night.
12Bore

Nice one Lorraine, glad the second batch was up to scratch!
I have a beard, and a jumper... Laughing
Lorrainelovesplants

So has John. He's been very silly all day today. Everytime we did a fill, there was a bit left over and he's been drinking it!

If I tell you that today we filled and pasteurised over 350 bottles.....
Laughing
dpack

Dpack -
Possible reasons for failure -
quite an early batch, so could have been a high fermentation temperature which stresses the yeast and creates off flavours
OR
a cleanliness/air issue. Everything was fine till I combined 2 batches. This is the moment when either a minute amount of bacteria got in OR when air has been the cause.

So - memo to self regarding sanitising hoses between transfer and to use a blanket of CO2 in future to prevent oxygen getting in.

CH3-COO-CH2-CH3,my vote is air got in ,perhaps not as a one off at a transfer stage but maybe as a longer term leak or via a slow ferment stage stopping the usual co2 blanket keeping things sweet

i have had that with winter wine in a bucket
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