shaunb
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Coppice CreationIf you had a hectare of land and wanted to produce wood fuel, what would you plant, hazel - yes, ash - yes, alder -yes, sweet chestnut - maybe, oak - thinking very long term, so yes.
What would YOU do.....
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12Bore
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Blackthorn, Hawthorn, Cherry, Pear, Rowan.............depends on soil type too.
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Tavascarow
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If I was only thinking fuel & not wildlife or timber use then I would just plant sycamore & ash.
I know sycamore is considered a weed but it is about the fastest growing of the deciduous trees & if seasoned well makes good fuel.
It's also easy to raise your own plants from seed.
I wouldn't consider oak unless I was planting for my grandchildren.
Willow & alder are great if you are going to install a modern chip burner but for logs useless as they carry to much moisture & when seasoned burn to fast.
But personally I think it is important to consider wildlife as well, so I would probably plant 50% ash/sycamore & 50% mixed hazel, thorn, beech, sweet chestnut oak & a few larch for the wildlife that likes conifers (Goldcrest & firecrest prefer conifers as do many insect species) & a few birch which although not particularly valuable for fuel or timber a good wildlife plant.
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Treacodactyl
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I'd look at the local area to see what does well, I'd also talk to some local woodpeople, decide if I wanted anything else from the trees such as fruits or nectar, timber etc, etc.
Ash yes, sycamore if it was already about (local woodman had a theory that it encourages grey squirrels, there's not much sycamore about near my woodland and no greys so there could be something in it), hazel, blackthorn, hawthorn as well. Oak would be for the next owners or the ones after them so not a priority, sweet chestnut isn't a great firewood and spits so would have to be used on a stove. Not sure about alder either as it seems quite prone to disease these days.
Something like dogwood seems to grow very quickly in my garden, spreads itself via suckers and seeds and produces some good firm wood so something to consider.
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bodger
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We've planted loads of trees here of numerous varieties and of the ones that we've planted, the ones that have really bulked up and really produced the goods are Siver birch, Alder and willow.
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Jamanda
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I know we've quoted this before but
Beechwood fires are bright and clear
If the logs are kept a year,
Chestnut's only good they say,
If for logs 'tis laid away.
Make a fire of Elder tree,
Death within your house will be;
But ash new or ash old,
Is fit for a queen with crown of gold.
Birch and fir logs burn too fast
Blaze up bright and do not last,
it is by the Irish said
Hawthorn bakes the sweetest bread.
Elm wood burns like churchyard mould,
E'en the very flames are cold
But Ash green or Ash brown
Is fit for a queen with golden crown.
Poplar gives a bitter smoke,
Fills your eyes and makes you choke,
Apple wood will scent your room
Pear wood smells like flowers in bloom
Oaken logs, if dry and old
keep away the winter's cold
But Ash wet or Ash dry
a king shall warm his slippers by.
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ksia
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Ta Tav and Trea for the suggestion of sycamore. We've gone Ash plus mix of others. Hadn't thought of Sycamore.
Would add that 2 eucalyptus we planted are going bonkers. Don't know how useful they are though.
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Treacodactyl
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Have you also thought about field maple? From my experience I don't think it grows as quick or straight up like sycamore but it's meant to be a very good firewood, it's native and personally it looks good.
I've got a few acres of woodland planted on poorish soil about 18 years ago, there's something like 20+ varieties on it and by far the best trees are ash. The oaks have really struggled, scots pine done well but not really a good firewood tree, hazels now doing ok but not really thick enough to provide much firewood, alder and cherry dying from diseases, beech doing quite well but they'll be slow growers and there's not really enough of others to reach a conclusion.
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shaunb
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| Jamanda wrote: | I know we've quoted this before but
Beechwood fires are bright and clear
If the logs are kept a year,
Chestnut's only good they say,
If for logs 'tis laid away.
Make a fire of Elder tree,
Death within your house will be;
But ash new or ash old,
Is fit for a queen with crown of gold.
Birch and fir logs burn too fast
Blaze up bright and do not last,
it is by the Irish said
Hawthorn bakes the sweetest bread.
Elm wood burns like churchyard mould,
E'en the very flames are cold
But Ash green or Ash brown
Is fit for a queen with golden crown.
Poplar gives a bitter smoke,
Fills your eyes and makes you choke,
Apple wood will scent your room
Pear wood smells like flowers in bloom
Oaken logs, if dry and old
keep away the winter's cold
But Ash wet or Ash dry
a king shall warm his slippers by. |
Superb, I'll use this if I may , cheers Mandy
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shaunb
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Did you know in the 18th & 19th C. much of the coppice around London was hornbeam because it has the highest calorific value when burnt for the bakeries etc.:
it also takes a long time to grow.
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Jamanda
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I've seen versions of that poem that extol the virtues of hornbeam too.
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shaunb
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I have established a 1 year £16K pilot project in north Shropshire to encourage landowners to return to woodfuel production.
Its unfortunate we have let our coppice woodland decline, such a sustainable product which benefits so much, not only the biodiversity but also local traditional jobs, communities and accountability. Its so much easier and logical to be conservative of ones resources if you can see where they're coming from.
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Lloyd
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From experience, a hectare is too small to be sustainable to supply home-fuel. It can assist however, and the advice above is good enough. Think Willow though, as a fast grower and bio-fuel.
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gz
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I planted hornbeam in Garn Dolbenmaen instead of beech-
I wouldn't say that it was a slow grower!! 
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Jamanda
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| shaunb wrote: | I have established a 1 year £16K pilot project in north Shropshire to encourage landowners to return to woodfuel production.
Its unfortunate we have let our coppice woodland decline, such a sustainable product which benefits so much, not only the biodiversity but also local traditional jobs, communities and accountability. Its so much easier and logical to be conservative of ones resources if you can see where they're coming from. |
Did the coppicing we used to do in Cwm woods get continued after we went?
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shaunb
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| Lloyd wrote: | | From experience, a hectare is too small to be sustainable to supply home-fuel. It can assist however, and the advice above is good enough. Think Willow though, as a fast grower and bio-fuel. |
Hello Lloyd,
I love your avatar thingy, superb!
I'm curious about willow, can it only be used if chipped, so is great for large woodburners that are finding themselves installed in small businesses etc, its not suitable for home wood burner though is it?
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shaunb
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| gz wrote: | I planted hornbeam in Garn Dolbenmaen instead of beech-
I wouldn't say that it was a slow grower!! |
That is good news, when could it be harvested then after planting?
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Lloyd
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Youre quite correct in both, for the solid fuel stove it will need seasoning, but starting the fire on Ash takes care of that. I just found that my two hectares were not sufficient (to my disappointment) to provide sustainability. This view was endorsed by the Greenwood Trust from Coalbrookdale, Telford, who were the first to advise me so.
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shaunb
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Mandy,
I visited Cwm Woods with Gutty after the Aber Re- Onion, and looked for the signs of coppicing, the answer is no, the canopy is as dense as ever. I remember at the time thinking we were being a bit 'under-effective', however it was a learning curve 20 years ago.
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Jamanda
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That's a shame. Oh well. You do what you can.
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shaunb
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| Lloyd wrote: | | Youre quite correct in both, for the solid fuel stove it will need seasoning, but starting the fire on Ash takes care of that. I just found that my two hectares were not sufficient (to my disappointment) to provide sustainability. This view was endorsed by the Greenwood Trust from Coalbrookdale, Telford, who were the first to advise me so. |
Hello Lloyd, Ash is the baby.
Its unfortunate to hear your 2 hectares was insufficient to provide all your needs.
However, my job is about teaching by example as much as anything and working with Heartwoods at the Greenwood centre in Ironbridge to bring thousands of hectares of un-managed woodland in the west midlands into production. We'll get there, hopefully the tide is turning and we can return to working with the land.
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shaunb
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| Jamanda wrote: | | That's a shame. Oh well. You do what you can. |
Were you there when we went on our first coppicing weekend in 1987 at Coed Du in Pembrokeshire I think, we refused to chop the trees down because no one had bothered to tell us the importance of coppicing, I always remember that when introducing woodland management
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Jamanda
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| shaunb wrote: | | Jamanda wrote: | | That's a shame. Oh well. You do what you can. |
Were you there when we went on our first coppicing weekend in 1987 at Coed Du in Pembrokeshire I think, we refused to chop the trees down because no one had bothered to tell us the importance of coppicing, I always remember that when introducing woodland management |
Coed Du rings a bell - but I don't recall refusing to chop anything down. I always recall we were rather keen on it!
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shaunb
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| Jamanda wrote: | | shaunb wrote: | | Jamanda wrote: | | That's a shame. Oh well. You do what you can. |
Were you there when we went on our first coppicing weekend in 1987 at Coed Du in Pembrokeshire I think, we refused to chop the trees down because no one had bothered to tell us the importance of coppicing, I always remember that when introducing woodland management |
Coed Du rings a bell - but I don't recall refusing to chop anything down. I always recall we were rather keen on it! |
It was the woodland with the hippy commune, Simon Smith was the leader and we had to find the source of a leak in a woodland pond. We stayed in a barn I think and listened to Burundi Black african drum music which drifted from the farmhouse, the moon was very big, I downed a Mars Bar side ways, memories....
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Lloyd
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| shaunb wrote: | | Jamanda wrote: | | That's a shame. Oh well. You do what you can. |
Were you there when we went on our first coppicing weekend in 1987 at Coed Du in Pembrokeshire I think, we refused to chop the trees down because no one had bothered to tell us the importance of coppicing, I always remember that when introducing woodland management |
I wish you all the best then, the Centre is a special place, as you may already have found.
It was on my third (or fourth?) course on coppicing that the whole group came to look at my wood. That was when it got the thumbs down. Too small to support a home, the lecturer said. Chap by he name of Jones. Believe he may still work there, a coppicer by trade?
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Tavascarow
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| Lloyd wrote: | | From experience, a hectare is too small to be sustainable to supply home-fuel. It can assist however, and the advice above is good enough. Think Willow though, as a fast grower and bio-fuel. |
I would have thought that would depend on whether the woodland was already established or new planting, the species chosen & how well insulated your home is.
If I couldn't heat my home on a hectare of ash cut on a 5 to 10 year cycle I would be very suprised & disapointed.
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Treacodactyl
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I planted some hornbeam at the back of our garden, lovely looking trees but I've also found them slow growers. The few in my woodland haven't done much at all, which is a shame.
As for willow, I was surprised to read goat/pussy willow should burn well and that can grow very quickly.
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bodger
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I'd be very disapppointed and suprised if a mature well maintained coppiced woodland of a hectare didn't suppy enough fuel for a single household.
We've planted field maple, hornbeam and oak. Oak is a very slow growing tree, so the struggling oaks that were mentioned earlier in the thread might not actualy be struggling. They could merely appear to be when grown along side quicker growing early maturing trees.
Sycamores ? They grow like weeds here, we fight a never ending battle against them. They even attempt to grow in our gutters and spring up everywhere. They get on well and are tough enough to grow in coastal areas. I've heard it said that they aren't particularly good for wildlife but they grow quickly and burn well.
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ninat
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very boggy here with acid soil. naturally growing species are birch, willow and alder. We've planted lots of birch to fill in where old trees have died or come down but last year planted 200 hybrid willow sticks for coppicing. Some have done really well growing about 6 feet, others only a few inches though the success is related to daylight levels- we've planted 2 areas where we had gaps.
We really loved the idea of ash and experimented with a dozen or so but they've been disappointing. Our neighbour has a fantastic white poplar which we've taken some of the suckers from as an experiment.
It seems to be a question of finding stuff that grows locally at a decent speed
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shaunb
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| ninat wrote: | very boggy here with acid soil. naturally growing species are birch, willow and alder. We've planted lots of birch to fill in where old trees have died or come down but last year planted 200 hybrid willow sticks for coppicing. Some have done really well growing about 6 feet, others only a few inches though the success is related to daylight levels- we've planted 2 areas where we had gaps.
We really loved the idea of ash and experimented with a dozen or so but they've been disappointing. Our neighbour has a fantastic white poplar which we've taken some of the suckers from as an experiment.
It seems to be a question of finding stuff that grows locally at a decent speed |
Its important to remember that it is unadvisable to be planting trees in areas of internationally important wetland, well managed wetland habitat is nationally rare.
I try to discourage the many landowners I talk to about planting trees in places they'll actually reduce biodiversity on a national level.
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shaunb
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The best planting of woodland is that which links existing woodland, especially ancient woodland (so aiding migration for climate change). We strive to eliminate tree planting on species rich grassland or wetland ares.
The Woodland Trust offers FREE woodland planting nationally
I offer free woodland in north Shropshire for woodfuel production
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