| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| crofter |
Cup marks?I have been hiking through the hills this weekend. Found some mysterious carved(?) stones, although I am not sure if the marks are man-made or the result of some natural erosion. I'm guessing the rock is sandstone. They are on a hillside among dozens of mounds, which are definately man made. Any ideas?
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| gil |
Whereabouts ?
Cup and ring marked stones - very common in these parts Try googling the Stone Pages website for antiquities, or 'cup and ring' Borrow a copy of Julian Cope's The Modern Antiquarian ? Dunno anything about Shetland prehistoric monuments. |
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| crofter |
Shetland(!) They are considered "unusual" here, which is why I wonder if these may not be man-made. But the whole hillside was covered in rocks, and only some had marks on them, plus being among heaps of cairns and mounds, made me wonder... | ||||
| dpack |
yes
nice find |
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| dpack |
very nice
are they mapped and recorded  must get gps / 8 figure ref for a stone near zennor which isnt recorded yet
only stone tools and effort make those holes a meditation i suspect |
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| dpack |
 
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| crofter |
Not as far as I know. OS shows 2 chambered cairns on the hilltop, but there are also 2 standing stones and literally dozens of mounds, as well as (at least) 4 rocks with circular holes/marks on them. |
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| dpack |
well done
the stone in the picture is a fairly common pattern .three cups ,scalloped around the edge ,a flat run off as well which direction does it face ? the mounds may well be barrows |
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| crofter |
They are all on the North slope of a hill. Not sure exactly about the orientation. Here is another.
And a mound 
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| dpack |
talk to the local archaeologists
offering stone / signpost common form from kernow through derbyshire to orkney and probably far beyond |
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| dpack |
the triple cup is common on such stones | ||||
| dpack |
the magic interweb service is a good place to find who to talk to re these rocks
google scholar will connect to the right folk |
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| gil |
mound looks like a chambered cairn to me
what dpack said ; really nice find There's a lot more than the OS maps ever say |
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| crofter |
I think you are right. There are heaps of them, all over the hillside, with a larger (stone) cairn at the top of the hill with two small standing stones either side of it.
That's for sure! 
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| dpack |
nice site | ||||
| crofter |
Yep. Hoping to get back soon... This is the aerial view - looks like 50 or more of those cairns! 
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| hedgehogpie |
There used to be a really good website called rock art in the uk run by two dutch guys who'd come over each year to find, photograph and map locations. Unfortunately the forum there folded and they moved everything here: http://rockartukbrac.blogspot.com/
They have a fantastic picture resource, well worth browsing. Cup & ring is very common to Northumberland but has been spotted, albeit less commonly, elsewhere in the UK. If you want to know whether your finds are listed anywhere you could do worse than contacting Gus & Jan. They're very knowledgable and I know they'd be interested to hear about it. |
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| Brownbear |
Perhaps you've discovered the cup-holders from the dashboard of Fred Flintstone's car. | ||||
| crofter |
Thanks for the link hedgehogpie. I emailled the local council archaeologist, but suppose people are forever pestering her about old rocks. | ||||
| Quail By Mail |
Real enthusiasm will come from your local history groups and historians rather than 'professional' archeologists or your local museum. I had a real chore trying to find out about my unusual back garden stone walls and and until I got into the local history scene where all kinds of banter and BBQs and new friends were found!!!
Nice find!!!! |
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| dpack |
once your local archeologists see the scale and quality of the site im sure they will be interested although there will be little cash for investigation
the local history group should have good contacts as well the high view is very interesting (as usual) looks like bronze age site to me as an informed non pro in a wider view are there any signs of settlements(groups of roundhouse bases in stonework,enclosures for stock ,field patterns etc or known bronze age settlement sites ? these folk lived somewhere before ending up in barrows on the hill , |
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| dpack |
might be worth a poke around on the seaward points for triple cup cut stone (or stones ) with a good view of sunset if one is upside down on it , feet to land /head to sea ,these if present may be cut from an outcrop or constructed usually base/stand and top ,either is likely to have a groove running from cup to cup to cup to earth and /or sea 
not wishing to be too graphic but such things exist in exactly such places as those westerly points there are probably other cupped stones around the perimeter of the site with less sinister purpose ooh another thought ,has the ground ever been disturbed ?no would be a very good answer 
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| crofter |
Yes. House in the foreground of this picture, and field system in the background to the left of the water. This is less than a mile away from the hill I was on, but looking on google earth the surrounding hills are all covered in the same cairns so I am itching to get back to explore! 
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| crofter |
In midsummer, the sun sets in the (almost) north, rather than the west - would northwest be more likely than west perhaps? Ground has not been disturbed much, some of the cairns have been opened and lie scattered, probably happened hundreds of years ago although one looks as if it has been investigated quite recently and clumsily rebuilt. Also a few stones with larger single "bowl" marks rather than multiple cups... 
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| dpack |
milk
ace landscape ,happy exploring midwinter sun ? map compass ,note book ,camera , etc help put the site plan in context well preservered settlement ,but the oval one could be much more recent |
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| crofter |
Good question! There is a stone circle (elipse) on a neighbouring island ( few miles to the west) which has recently been excavated and is aligned to midwinter sunrise. http://archaeoastronomy.wordpress.com/2007/07/09/astronomy-in-da-heights/
Not sure about the age of the stones, but I believe they are pretty ancient. Lack of human interference has preserved them. Here is another possible house site in front of an impressive "wall" 
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| dpack |
maybe wind / sun practical shape for houses
midwinter sunset is a good line to check as is mw sunrise for chambered stuff someone must know some good books /web thingies to help with fieldwalking and logging , get to know the place and make notes relating to the sat snaps might be fun making sense of the marks folk have left is a great activity
im a bit jealous ,i lived in such a site and explored and got one more logged ,quite miss living with such places , |
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| crofter |
We will never know for sure, but they put the stones where they are for some purpose... there is a dig in Orkney at the moment which I'm hoping to visit next month: http://www.orkneyjar.com/archaeology/ringofbrodgar/index.html Three digs going on within a few miles of my house also, but all on "modern" viking sites
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| gil |
That aerial view is amazing. Do the stones or other features line up with or have any relation to the cliffed bay that opens south-west ?
I assume you've come across Aubrey Burl's book ? 'The Stone Circles of Britain, Ireland and Brittany'. I have an very amateur interest in such things. Quite a few stone circles very close to here. Midwinter sunset alignments. Generally in places with hills round about, which makes your site seem rather different., being exposed on cliffs. |
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| Jonnyboy |
Can someone explain the significance and reason for the cup marks?
It's all very interesting but I'm a bit lost. |
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| gil |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_and_ring_mark
http://www.cupstones.f9.co.uk/whatrcr.htm |
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| Bebo |
Don't know, but when I read the title I thought it was going to be one of the girlie threads about bras being too tight or something. |
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| Quail By Mail |
In Art History we discussed them as being man-made for ritual purposes (holding blood or water is a guess, but no one really knows for sure). They're also known as petroglyphs and pretty much found all over the northern hemisphere. I've seen them in British Columbia, where cup marks are a very big deal because they are so rare. Some people today believe that old stones have an aura and it is said that the reason a lot of megalithic art and ruins exist becuase the culture was so that certain areas had 'auras of importance'. I'm not one for chanting around stone circles naked, but I certainly find ancient ruins intriguing. |
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| Jonnyboy |
Thank you everyone. | ||||
| dpack |
cultural context ,umm
maybe robert graves was close with his white goddess hypothesis trade from lebanon to cornwall iand all points between and beyond was normal stable societies and inter relation between societies was normal the imagery of their times is a broad subject as is the interpretation of the traces of that these folk left behind a plan of the area may help put things in context looks like a moor of the dead to me ,these often have "places"around them they also need folk living within distance to deliver the dead to the barrows / sky and do whatever around the edge a single breast shaped cup with three run off grooves suggests the milk of a triple goddess to me ,maybe for the spectral cats to lap on
ace place
get to know the place and the context ,history is truth |
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| crofter |
Haven't spent much time on that side of the hill  (Slightly paranoid about high cliffs when I'm out by myself) but what dpack has said makes me curious to have a look. I've edited the aerial view to show the areas where the carved stones I've seen so far are located - these have all been on the north side of the hill, below the cairns. The whole hillside is covered in stones though, I'm sure there are more with cup marks, but they'll still be there next time I look!
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| James |
that's an incredible site. You're very lucky to have found it. I'd be careful who you tell. |