| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| joker |
Deer CalibresDoes anyone know the legal calibres for shooting deer as I am interested in shooting some deer on a farm I shoot on but not sure which calibre Rifle I should use
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| Treacodactyl |
I assume you have shot deer before or you will be accompanied by someone who has as there is much to learn. If you are not sure what calibre to use then I would say you should take some training before even contemplating shooting deer.
One of the best starting places would be the BASC and they have details here: http://www.basc.org.uk/content/stalkingpractice |
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| Jonnyboy |
Be careful you don't get shot in the foot again. | ||||
| joker |
Yeah I was thinking of asking Deerstalker 
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| leebu |
Misread this thread title... thought it said "deer calipres" ..Can't imagine anything more unsporting than shooting disabled deer... |
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| Lloyd |
.243 minimum | ||||
| Treacodactyl |
It does depend on where you are. Scotland is different and I think the Governemnt may be in the process of changing it for England for some of the small deer species, but I don't know how long it will take. |
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| Lloyd |
But he's in Yorkshire! | ||||
| Treacodactyl |
Not everyone is.  
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| Lloyd |
Only stags and Fallow bucks can be shot legally right now, and then nothing from the end of April until the new open season in the Autumn. Bucks from Aug 1st, does from Nov 1st.  If you want to use the 12 bore, you must use a rifled slug of not less than 350 grains, or AAA shot. In Scotland, not less than 380 grains, or SSG, except Roe deer, AAA for them. 
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| Treacodactyl |
That'll give me time to sort out somewhere to buy half a deer for the freezer. | ||||
| Treacodactyl |
If I ever learn to shoot deer then I'll take a course and use whatever they recommend. That's another thing for the ever growing list... 
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| Guest |
In England, Wales and N.I. it is a minimum calibre of .240 for all deer.
In Scotland "For shooting any species of deer - a bullet designed to deform in a predicable manner of not less than 100gr. (6.48g) with a muzzle velocity of not less than 2450 ft/ses (746.78m/sec) and a muzzle energy of not less than 1750ft/lbs For Roe in Scotland - a bullet designed to deform in a predictable manner of not less than 50gr (3.24g) with a muzzle velocity of not less than 2450 ft/sec (746.78m/sec) and a muzzle energy of not less than 1000 ft/lbs (1356 joules) |
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| joker |
Hmmm so I can shoot deer with the 12 bore in this country I thought that was only with special permision that they dont like isueing
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| sean |
I think the law requires a rifle to be used. I'm sure that guest or TD will be able to confirm or refute this. | ||||
| Lloyd |
I was quoting from the Deer Act, 1991, section 7.
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| Treacodactyl |
Have you checked the BASC link? |
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| sean |
Sorry, I hadn't read your post properly so I'd missed the 12 bore bit in it. |
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| Lloyd |
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| Guest |
To use a smooth bore weapon, you must prove that deer are causing SERIOUS financial damage to timber, crops, vegetables or fruit at the location where they are shot (very very difficult to prove to a court and 9 times of 10 there will be a court case! ).
The normal procedure is to complain to DEFRA who will hire a professional stalker. |
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| Lloyd |
Deer that graze bark on "in-rotation" coppice will reduce the value at least, and kill the crop at worst. This, surely, can be seen as serious damage, Guest?...I refer you to the above Deer Act. This is a simple statement of the legal position until it is reviewed
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| Treacodactyl |
Do you not need either a FAC or a special note on a shot-gun cert to use a rifled slug or large shot? I have no i-deer (sorry ) but I remember this mentioned.
Would a deer carcass shot with a correct rifled round be worth more to you MM than one peppered with shot? Must have room in the freezer for some? |
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| Lloyd |
Yes to the latter....The cleaner the kill, the nicer the condition of the carcass.
To use solid shot requires a firearm certificate clearly identifying this detail, although I believe that with a standard shotgun certificate, you can purchase most if not all of the multi ball calibres...Not sure about this....Where's DS when you need him!! I keep AAA in my ammo belt for foxes. No probs buying that and I do not have the solid shot clause on my ticket. |
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| Guest |
Here, but I think you all knew that. I deleted my cookies and can't remember my password (that's what comes of ticking the constantly logged on box) - never mind, I'll always answer a friends question.
Use of shotguns. Because it is up to you to prove damage, your case must be cast iron, ie photos of deer causing damage, times, places etc etc. You can understand this from the point of view that if this section of the law wasn't watertight, the whole world and his brother would be out blasting at deer with 12 bores. The 12 bore even with a rifled slug is a very inhumane way to kill deer (they are about as accurate as a medieval cannon). With AAA you won't even stop a deer at greater than 10 yards unless it's a very lucky shot. You cannot by law use shells that contain 9 balls or less that make up the full cartridge load - ie one ounce or greater (smaller than a 12 gauge is illegal). When you go for greater pellet diameter (and therefore less of them) you tend to get 'blown' patterns which makes the chance of a clean kill very remote. At close range (20 yards or so) rifled slugs can be effective, but they cause trememdous tissue damage (I measured an exit wound once that was almost three feet across! ) and are not suitable for human consumption (unless you like spitting out loads of lead and bone splinters). Also the digestive system is compromised with makes it "contaminated" and unfit for the human food chain.
You do need a FAC to use rifled slugs (horrible things because you never know which direction they will go (they don't perform like a bullet) or who's kids will be hit by an ounce of toppling lead at high speed. In addition a rifled slug can only be shot from a true cylinder shotgun (no chokes) or it will blow up in your face - nasty! |
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| sean |
I think the password stuff is sortable, though I don't know how to do it myself. If you would like me to find out: knock once for yes, or twice for no.
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| Guest |
I think we need to talk. 
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| Guest |
PM me at Mrs L 's. | ||||
| Lloyd |
Thanks, mate, for clearing that up.
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| joker |
O.K dont think I will be using the 12 Bore
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| deerstalker |
Shotguns, as night shooting, can only be used under exceptional circumstances, approved by DEFRA. | ||||
| Lloyd |
Refer to my quote above, from the Deer Act, 1997, Section 7 |
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| deerstalker |
Quote the act please!
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| Lloyd |
The relevant part states Ammunition,: England Wales and Northern Ireland
Rifled slug of not less than 350 grains or AAA shot.
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| deerstalker |
Yes, but read it through! Under what circumstances?
I think you'll find the act doesn't say you can use a .240+ rifle or a shotgun, whatever takes your fancy to stalk deer.
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| Lloyd |
No, you are correct in that it states what is permissible, and what isn't. So please, correct me it I am wrong, or if not , wind ya neck in!! | ||||
| Lloyd |
When I said 240, I meant 243...The difference is largely accademic anyway. The Deer Act is the point. Am I the only one who underdtands it around here? | ||||
| deerstalker |
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| Lloyd |
Anyway, DS, as it turns out, I have recently found evidence of bark stripping in the wood. Now my weapons fall outside the law for deer shooting, so am I right in thinking that my first course of action is to get the Police Firearm Liaison chap to look at the wood with me, re: safety, etc?...Then get a suitable calibre slotted onto my ticket?
I could do an article on the cull, ....How to skin a Deer....... |
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| deerstalker |
Go for it. Nobody here has any real experience of shooting or ballistics other than you or Kev (joker).
How do you paunch a rabbit or gralloch a deer?
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| Lloyd |
let me contact the Police first, mate, or You'll be getting me in trouble. Remember Peter Sellers in Pink Panther.....I am the "Leauh"
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| Lloyd |
The first deer I shot we brought home and hung it from teh apple tree by its hind feet. I went to my local, then two doors down, to see if they had freezer space, and a chap came back with me who was a retired master butcher!...He skinned it in teh garden, and paunched it there too, then carried the carcass into teh kitchen for gralloching. I had offered him some choice cuts in return, but he didn't like Venison, so I gave him a pint of Strongbow!! |
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| deerstalker |
I didn't ask you!
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| Lloyd |
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| deerstalker |
I'm starting a shooting business - I'll keep you posted.
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| Lloyd |
Good luck!...Just stay nice and regular in 'ere, like!
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| tahir |
Blimey. he don't come cheap then eh?
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| joker |
Please tell Me more
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| coyotekiller |
Hello Joker. I have some insight I'd like to share with you on the use of 12 bore rifled slugs for deer. Where I live the shotgun with rifled slugs was the only legal firearm for deer for many years. Tens of thousands of deer have been taken with this combination. I assure you a choked shotgun will not blow up if you use a slug and an improved cylinder choke is best. One step up from no choke at all. I would stay away from guns using removable choke tubes for slug shooting. The most common slug used here is one ounce and I have never seen or heard of one leaving a three foot wide exit wound. Nor should you expect mostly lead and bone if you take a deer in this manner. A deer is so thin skinned that the slug doesn't have much time to deform before it's in the air again on the other side of the deer. A slugs trajectiry is somewhat different than a rifle bullet. The slug is spinning like a bullet but it also travels in a spiral. Hold your arm out at face level with finger pointed then slightly rotate your whole arm. That is the flight of a slug but you have to shoot one very far before the spiral is large enough to compromise accuracy. Are they accurate? I have seen several deer dropped on impact out to 120-125 yards. As with anything else, shot placement is critical. Mossberg has a factory guarantee on their mod. 500 "I own one" to hit a beer can at 100 yards with a slug. If the gun won't hit the can they will take it back and make it hit it. And yes at 100 yards there is plenty of energy left to humanely kill the deer. Recoil is substantial with slug loads so practicing can get a little painful sometimes. But practice is a must. I say shoot the heaviest slug load you can find. In the days when I used a shotgun I used 3 inch 1 1/4 ounce loads. Never had a deer take even one single step when hit by this load. I have seen many rifle shot deer run off never to be seen again. So anyway I hope this helps you some and I apologize for any feathers I may ruffle in posting. Have a great day. |