| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| Quail By Mail |
Devon Clothing Label...retailing and wholesalingI operate an ethical fashion label based in South Devon called Quail By Mail.:: Quail specialises in organic and Fairtrade cotton :: Other exotic heritage fabrics are used such as South African shweshwe and Indonesian batik :: Quail manufactures 85% of the line in Devon, the remainder in London, Scotland and West Yorkshire :: I commission British fashion graduates and rural craftspeople :: I use local models :: There is an emphasis on English design elements such as box pleats, pleats, functioning pockets and vintage elements I used to do a highly stressful job in London and my husband and I ditched both jobs to head to south Devon, the UK's most organic county. I started Quail from scratch, which means I own all of the designs in my collection and forged my own relationships with trusted organic/Fairtrade/ethical suppliers overseas and locally. The purpose of Quail is to 'break even' so I also have a real job! There is plenty to read about products and methodology on the Quail By Mail website. Quail sells everything via the website and I also offer wholesale. Thanks for looking! |
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| Jamanda |
Do you cater for the more generously sized lady? I generally find ethically principled companies all look very well on the web until I try to find some thing that will fit. Then I go back to M&S.
Welcome to DS BTW 
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| Stacey |
^^^^
What Jamanda said |
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| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
ooh Quail, things look lovely! That's you bookmarked, love the shirts! (and the clip purse, and the brooches, and the frocks....)
Welcome by the way! 
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| Frewen |
Hi - good luck, the things look lovely 
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| growingafamily |
The clothes are lovely, but as with some of the other ladies here, seems no one over a 16 is catered for, which seems the case with most ethical clothes I like the look of.
Don't they realise all this good living can be hazardous to the waistline LOL Maybe if I slim down a bit after baby - the shirts and skirts are lovely |
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| Quail By Mail |
Insight from QuailLadies, first of all thank you for your encouraging comments! I hear you! I'm a size 16-18 so I certainly take your point. However allow me to explain where the problem sits:It takes fabric to make clothes. The larger the size, the more fabric. Costs are calculated on how much a Size 12 costs to produce. So if a Size 12 takes 2.00m of fabric and Size 16 takes up 2.75m then the extra fabric cost has to tie up somewhere along the line. I'm sure we all realise that no matter what the sizes are in a shop the line is always priced the same. Ever wondered why the larger sizes sell out faster? Shops make less of the larger sizes. I think one of you is a knitter/crafter and knows that it is cheaper on materials and faster to produce a baby's jumper than it would be to make a jumper for the Vicar of Dibley? I have a Size 20 or 22 organic denim skirt made in Devon in black with red stitching like on the website which was made by accident becuase the pattern was wrong. It cost £36 to make it including labour, materials, buttons, zip. Does anyone want to give it a go? |
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| ros |
That does make sense and explains to some extent why you have chosen to stop at size 16. What I don't understand though is that why if, as we are always being told, the average brit is size 16 that prices are calculated for size 12??
You would find plenty of customers by going to size 20 and upping the prices just a little to compensate, as no one else producing ethical clothing is doing that (as far as I can tell) you have very little competition. Why not make a few garments in bigger sizes and add a little to the prices- see if they sell? It's tops I need the larger size in  , so I can't take you up on the offer of the skirt to try, sorry.
edited twice for dodgy spacebar! |
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| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
some do sell bigger sizes though, sorry to harp on about one of my favourite ethical clothes suppliers but www.dennyandrews.co.uk does larger things and things that would be suitable for pregnant ladies. look at this page for example - http://www.dennyandrews.co.uk/latestadditions.htm she talks of a simple welsh woollen mill top up to 52" bust!
I suppose its working out your target market and sizing as appropriate. What I am pleased to see you doing is classic straightforward clothing. There is certainly a gap in the market for ethical clothing which isn't making me look like a sufer dude ( I'm too old for a hoodie) or a hippy (I like long floaty skirts but there is a limit) I'm 45 and whilst not 'past it' I do have to dress somewhat appropriately for my age. |
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| jamsam |
"Ever wondered why the larger sizes sell out faster? Shops make less of the larger sizes.
I think one of you is a knitter/crafter and knows that it is cheaper on materials and faster to produce a baby's jumper than it would be to make a jumper for the Vicar of Dibley" how patronising!! if you dont want to do bigger sizes then you will be alienating almost 50% of the national market. Either come up with a better reason or stop being so patronising, we know we need more material!! If a larger size item costs more to make, price it highter. Dont expect me to umm and ahh over your items and then say " oops, my mistake IM to fat for YOUR clothes". its not hard to work out. well done on the small production/local people front though, its always a good way to introduce yourself to a local community. (Having a red mist moment at the arrogance of clothes manufacturing companies who think that they can justify only selling to a small section of society is good practice)..... |
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| ros |
agree there, except that I'd rather tend towards looking like a hippy than owning up to/dressing my age
didn't spot anything on dennyandrews site before, but thanks for reminding me, off to have another look |
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| Penny |
I agree with you Jamsam - It totally pees us off that we can't get larger sized nice things! | ||||
| Jamanda |
I'm afraid I just don't think a black denim skirt is me. I do like the blouses you have, but they wouldn't fit.
How small scale are your production runs? Can you make things to order? At a price that covers your materials obviously. It would seem to make more sense to offer bigger clothes at a higher price than to just not do them. We have a lot of knitters on here. Many of them very talented - even an untalented one like my self can work out that I would expect to buy more wool to make a cardy for me than for a size 10. |
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| Quail By Mail |
Bigger Sizes - I hear you!So now that a small contingent of ladies is flying the flag for bigger sizes I will begin to grade some larger pattern sizes of my existing collection. Unfortunately I can't make items to order.Patronising? You'd be surprised who many non-crafters and crafters alike do not factor all costs on how much it actually takes to make something in time, materials, transport, fees etc. Obviously some of you know exactly what you're doing. I launched in December 2007 and my retail production runs are currently 4 in all sizes, all styles and all colours. My wholesale production runs range dramatically for the different styles and colours. My target market is women who buy already buy organic/fairtrade food/cosmetics and are expanding into clothing. When I took part in a temporary Fairtrade shop for Fairtrade Fortnight in Mar'08 I had customers of all ages. I don't believe in a target age as I prefer to offer variety: spaghetti straps, short sleeve, 3/4 and long sleeve to cater to comfort! |
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| growingafamily |
I think the clothes are lovely like I said.
I would also rather see larger sizes available even if they have to be priced higher to compensate. I have seen this in shops before (can't remember which though), more so with children's clothes. I'm pretty top heavy so larger sized tops are a must for me, the bottom half depends on cut of the garment usually. There is definitely a gap in the market for larger sized ethical clothes, esp non-surfer style ones. Well done on the business so far though, the website is nice looking and easy to get around. |
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| Jamanda |
Re: Bigger Sizes - I hear you!
I'll look forwards to seeing your new range
Don't forget to have a look round the rest of the site and join in on some of the other threads. (Even the daft ones) |
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| Brownbear |
Re: Bigger Sizes - I hear you!
Especially the daft ones. |
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| Helen_A |
Hang on - as a manufacturer you decide the size the costings are done on surely? Certainly I have a costing for each childrens size, and the finished product is priced according, varying by size. Same for the nappies, and the T's. All this is pretty normal in the 'ethical' marketplace, as well as in the mainstream. Even more so in those companies who produce in small runs.
Companies that I buy from wholesale also generally vary prices by size. The exceptions being those labels that you have to buy by the 'pack', and they specify the sizes and range and numbers of each. OK so that happens in the adult marketplace as well, but not usually in the ethical one. .... will have to take a closer look at the show this week... Actually - looking at the per minute rates I've been gathering recently, there is about a 5 second difference quoted in the make up time between size 12 and size 20 from the examples given by one company. The major time differences seem to come where sizes contain adjustments for different size busts (by cup size) - but then that isn't something that I'm looking at doing, lol.... I like the look of your stuff - but there are quite a few people here who are also in the manufacturing line of things, current or past 
Welcome! Helen_A who is glad to see you use KV Kuppam - my first job was with BTC (so in a way they are responsible for a lot of the way I see the world and how I ended up in this line of work )
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| Quail By Mail |
I've taken all suggestions onboard and I'm now confident enough to roll out larger sizes and price items accordingly, as suggested by Ros.
I currently do sizes 8-16 so would you all be happy with 8-22? My designs (the ones in the pipeline especially) are heavily influenced by vintage WWII workmen's shirts which were adapted and worn by the Land Girls, aka the Women's Land Army. My great grandfatehr was a tailor working in rural Norfolk so I'm influenced by him as well as museum photographs of agricultural workers up and down the country. Compared to their city and factory worker counterparts, there is rarely a glum and ruddy face amongst the agricultural workers' faces, quite the opposite. So does that appeal to the non-hippy, non-surfer Downsizer lady? |
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| Jamanda |
Yes, that sounds very interesting. As I said, I liked the ones currently on your site, so I will certainly have a good look at these new ones. | ||||
| Jamanda |
Just out of interest do you sell lots of size six stuff? | ||||
| ros |
I think "land girl chic" would be quite appropriate for non-hippy Downsizer ladies
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| growingafamily |
I think those sizings are a lot more realistic for the market.
I really like the vintage feel as a change from the hippy/surfer look. I will look forward to seeing the progress of new lines on your site - maybe you could keep us ladies updated. |
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| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
great phrase! |
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| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
it does! and Ros's phrase Land-girl chic is apt. Gone away and mused here. Shirts are good but some ethical trousers would be good too. (because we're not all like Sarah Raven and can garden in a skirt!) Suitable for gardening and outdoors in general, they should (to my mind) be hardwearing (so not linen which I seem to tear too easily though they look great) some pockets of use but not cargo ones down the leg (pointless those) and not like jeans where they're too tight to put a phone, knife or keys in without something digging in somewhere. perhaps in a twill? A little stretch perhaps because we all need a little lycra to help with fit? What do you think? What did land-girls wear for trousers? I think that could be a fascinating project! |
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| gil |
Land Girls wore Womens Land Army breeches : stout, hard-wearing corn-coloured corduroy, that buttoned up at the sides and had capacious pockets.
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| gil |
more
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| mochyn |
Now we've seen Gil's pin-ups!
I like that kind of style, also bib-and-brace sort of thing. Have you seen Old Town? Norwich, I think. If you imagine American Gothic (the painting, not the TV programme) that's their kins of thing. Very plain and unfussy, lovely natural fabrics... If I could afford them I'd buy them. |
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| tahir |
Good luck with this. From my own experience people always pester for bigger sizes but when you get them in they don't buy them, for a variety of reasons but one of the main ones is the price; smaller runs, more fabric.... | ||||
| mochyn |
Tahir: I knew you wouldn't be able to stay out of this thread for long! 
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| tahir |
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| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
if they were carefully cut.. so as not to make a girl's behind larger than normal.. then that could work. Finding things that tuck in wellies without that pleat of hem that digs in to the ankle could be a useful thing. And like you say, capacious pockets! We like that idea. |
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| Quail By Mail |
I like the corn coloured corduroy idea, I have swatches in my file of the thickest, widest most corduroy-est corduroy in the whole of England, but it's manufactured in Romania. After contacting tons of, and nearly all of the mills in the Midlands, no apparel weaving seems to take place here anymore, its all abroad, owned by English companies. The weaving that is done here is mainly for the car industry and upholstery etc. If anyone knows of any fabric other than wools or tweed please drop a line here. I know people are growing hemp in the UK but it's getting shipped out of the country for processing into fabric.
I am a fan of Old Town, having come across it whilst looking into my family history in the same area. I love the attention to detail of their work. We all grow up being told that cotton is natural, clean and crisp but 'natural' is an over-used word in my opinion. What does 'natural' really mean anymore? The definition of 'natural' went off the rails just after WWII when pesticide factories sprung up all over to hurry things along. I'm a huge supporter of organic cotton simply because of the huge amount of pesticides being used in the growing of commercial cotton. Most countries are involved with growing of cotton from California to Spain by longitude and every country below. I used to think that wool, cotton, silk was 'natural' until I saw how the world works. |
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| Frewen |
I like the waist and button detail - but not saddlebags 
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| Helen_A |
By and large hemp grown here is being processed and woven in Romania Its a strictly land-transported thing as well Most linen sold here has come in from Romania or Germany as well (in spite of a fair amount of the flax growing here or in Ireland). I know that doesn't make it 'all right' but its pretty good.
(sorry - rather, um, keen on the old hemp as a clothing material just wishing that the romanian lot would pull fingers out and weave terry as well cos atm most of that is only woven in China or the USA)
Helen_A |
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| Quail By Mail |
I'm keen on hemp too. And true, it is a European product! I have a policy of not buying from China, preferring and trusting India for obvious reasons. I'm experimenting with hemp all the time, trying to find the right weight for the right garment etc.
I'm keen on the provenance of things so that I pass this information onto my customers, who either scrutinise these facts or think it's nice/romantic to know. It can't always be acheived. When raw British hemp leaves Britain to have value added abroad is difficult to get ahold of British hemp fabric for my business. The system isn't geared to answer 'romantic' queries like this. I had a reclaimed pine kitchen put into the cottage recently and the Belfast sink came from...wait for it...Qatar of all places! You'd think hmmm hope the UK, maybe Ireland, perhaps France or Portugal, hmmm maybe Turkey...no...Qatar. It's a lovely sink though! |
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| tahir |
What are those? |
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| Quail By Mail |
In China it is possible to make fake chicken eggs!
On the more practical side, I know from my previous job what it's like to do business in these two countries and I know which business culture I prefer, the more honest, spiritual, connected India as opposed to the more suspect, money-hungry, trampling China. |
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| tahir |
I know from my current job that there's plenty of suspect, money hungry, trampling Indians, and the Indian govt (like most developing countries) doesn't exactly have an exemplary record when it comes to human rights. We deal with India, China, Bangladesh etc. |
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| nora |
Hello Quail by Mail, I saw some of your dresses in a shop near me yesterday (Spirals in Hebden Bridge). They had one of the pink ones on display, it looked great. | ||||
| Brownbear |
A mate of mine from Jodhpur has made a fortune out of western seekers after enlightenment. He charges them a couple of grand for a fortnight, then leads them up a mountain and abandons them in a draughty hut with nothing to read and little to eat, with instructions to run a hose up their fundaments twice a day, and then poo into big colanders to see what comes out. After their fortnight of spiritual awakening he has one of his lackeys drop them back at the airport with an invitation to return to the next level (a different draughty hut but with a linen sheet each rather than a sleeping bag, and a more powerful hose pipe). So far, he's bought a lovely family home with enclosed garden, two farms, a shoot and two landrovers out of the profits, and is saving for a Mercedes. |
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| growingafamily |
ROFL
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| Quail By Mail |
Hi Nora! Lovely to hear from you! It also shows how well-networked Downsizer is! I've was only contacted by Spirals of Hebden Bridge less than a fortnight ago...Quail's first ever wholesale order...so I'm delighted you were able to see my stuff in the flesh!
What is Hebden Bridge like? Today I took Quail to a craft fair in Paignton, the town next to Brixham, and another Downsizer came up and said she heard about me on Downsizer! I love it! |
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| Quail By Mail |
I know what side of the fence I'm on when it comes to India and China. | ||||
| nora |
Hebden Bridge is a good place to live (mostly!!). It has quite a few Fair Trade selling shops and cafes. Lots of tourists come here all year round but especially from now until about October.
I go in that Spirals shop regularly, often just to look but it has so many different things in there that its perfect for present buying. It's a big double fronted shop that also has a double upstairs floor too. The women who run it just let you wander around without harrassment so thats good. Hope your stuff sells well in there, i'm sure it will as it has a lot of customers all year round. |
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| colour it green |
that was me still think you should sell quail too!
nice little teddy bears btw... |
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| Gervase |
They're also handy for chaps - I used to have a pair for riding and they were extremely comfortable. I just never told anyone they were women's Land Army issue. |
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| Quail By Mail |
I've visited the Colour it Green website - I also use milk cartons for plant labels! | ||||
| Quail By Mail |
Quail is now being sold at:
Green Squirrel, 15 Princes Street, Perth Spirals Fairtrade Shop, 11-13 Market Street, Hebden Bridge Anyone here going to Triodos Bank's WEBA in early June? ~ Women in Ethical Business Awards (London). |
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| Maxwell Smart |
Just came across this thread.
I find your comment on COGs interesting as I can't imagine that it would really influence your production to such a large extent that you couldn't amortise the cost differences between sizes over the entire run. From my experience, unless you are using very expensive handmade fabrics then the cost of fabric between the sizes is marginal compared to your production costs and other materials (zips, buttons, packaging etc) if you are producing in a country like the UK. What do you think Tahir? Quail - Did you attend the Webas? |
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| tahir |
It depends on the scale I think, I've no idea how many garments at a time Quail is cutting but if it were us even the number of sizes would affect the rating, in general a lay of (8:1 10:2 12:2 14:1) would be cheaper than (8:2 10:3 12:2 14:1), not by huge amounts but significant in our terms In terms of garment size how many panels can be fitted across the fabric is crucial. When we do large sizes for people (especially on trousers) the price jumps sharply if we can't get all the pieces across the fabric. Re fabric cost vs other costs I agree with you, in real terms fabric is cheaper now than when we last did our own direct production (i.e. bought the fabric and made the garment) 10 years ago, labour is generally by far the biggest component in UK production. |
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| Do Good Design |
Finding British hemp and other eco-fabrics
Hi everyone, I'm Rachel. I came across your post, Quail By Mail (and therefore this forum, which is great so hope you don't mind my joining in) because I was doing a big search for "British hemp" and other green fabrics to make clothes with. It's incredibly challenging! If anyone else is interested in making their own eco-clothing, I found Fabrics Ltd, a company in Wales that supplies organic cotton fabric, and Hemp Fabric UK, which supplies hemp from Romania and China and organic cotton. But no luck on the British hemp. Did anyone ever find any locally-based hemp or other (non-wool) local fabrics? |
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| Jamanda |
No help on the fabric front - but welcome to the forum.
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| tahir |
Hi. Not many mills left in the UK I'm afraid | ||||
| Frewen |
Hi there - I'm afraid I'm developing a bit of a thing for wool so I can't help on the fabric front but do join in - they're quite nice people here
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| Do Good Design |
Thanks for the welcome, everyone, I'm looking forward to learning more about the community.
Frewen, don't get me wrong -- I adore wool, especially tweed and knitting wool. I just thought I'd try to branch out. What woolens do you like? |
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| Frewen |
I'm a fledgling felt maker so I like my wool reasonably raw 
It's always nice to meet people who are trying to source products as close to home as possible
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| Maxwell Smart |
Might be worth contacting the EFF. | ||||
| Quail By Mail |
Do Good Design - do you want eco/ethical fabric for a bit of home sewing or for something more commercial?
I've had my feelers out for ages trying to find a single non-wool British fabric but to no avail. There are plenty of small scale but highly skilled weavers around but their products are finished goods (scarves, baby blankets). I may ponder doing a limited edition tunic/jacket made from local (Devon) handloom from Romanian organic cotton. Part of the problem with British artisan raw products or the majority of crafters for that matter is that the producers are unknown to buyers. On the back of my business card I have:
"There are thousands of people out there--beyond the high street--designing, crafting, sewing, looming and pounding away in backrooms, workshops and studios making beautiful things. Some are out there in the 'back of beyond', others are right in the heart of towns and cities--but to most of us--they are invisible....and then I mention Quail! |
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| Do Good Design |
Thanks for the tip about the Ethical Fashion Forum, Maxwell -- I've signed up to their newsletter. As for the uses of the fabric, QBM, it's just for my own use.
I have this dream of completely designing my own wardrobe -- nothing fancy, but dyed in colours I love (Procion I think, since natural dyes have their own set of problems). I'd like the fabrics to be durable and as local and toxin-free as possible. I'm just tired of crappy clothes that don't fit me and since I already do graphic design, I want to do some silk screening onto my clothes too (like your partner Jason). I saw your beautiful clothing and honestly, they're too good for me! I'm always mucking about and stains and tears are a given. But I LOVE your philosophy and will be sure to keep checking back as well as spread the word far and wide. What are your plans for the future with the clothing range? |
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| Jamanda |
I love Quail's designs too. I keep checking to see if those larger sizes have turned up yet. | ||||
| Quail By Mail |
Lots and lots of deep indigo blues and dark inky colours coming for Autumn. More patterns, more stripes, more arty use of colour. I get a lot of GREEN customers but I think the majority of customers just want something different/artisan/British/funky - so I'm going to push the boat out in this regard, but also have some toned-down stuff as well. A huge inspiration is: http://www.alpanabawa.com/ It was a huge surprise to find out within the first 8 months of trading that so many international customers have not only become fans but write about Quail in blogs and stuff which is really lovely. I'll be slowly releasing larger sizes, up to Size 20 because there's a market for it. The boutiques, however are less interested in the larger sizes so I have to gauge the selling of the larger sizes online. |
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| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
liked the colourfulness of alpanabawa. I agree that there is a need for funky colourful clothes. Its a balance though - there is a need for good quality ethical and 'green' clothing which as I said before somewhere ( appols if it was this thread) that doesn't make me look like a surfer dude or a hippy. They need to be flattering and not just baggy one size all stuff and yet personally I do want to be a little individual and not dress like anyone else hence my love of www.gudrunsjoden.co.uk stuff. Colourful and funky and a little different without screaming eco at everyone. |
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| Quail By Mail |
Definately! Quail needs to stand for eco/ethical fashion but also for a particular style. I want stuff that can be worn during a fun Saturday afternoon whether it be out for dinner, a picnic, a festival or out shopping. The one size fits all doesn't really work really, there's gotta be a compromise somewhere! |
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| Brownbear |
What about stuff that can be worn for digging vegetables, lambing, or skinning rabbits? There's a high demand from the curvaceous lady downsizer. |
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| Do Good Design |
I'd second the need in general for clothing that's more durable and tailored. I noticed the Gudrunsjoden and Alpana sites both featured very loose, cotton dresses and skirts. I loved the colours and creativity, but it never gets warm enough here to wear thin cotton, and I rarely wear skirts and dresses. | ||||
| Quail By Mail |
Do Good, do you know 'Trenabies' in Kirkwall? You may be able to spot Quail stuff there in future. | ||||
| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
Gudrun has this habit of layering clothing so she does tend to chuck everything in the range on one poor model. It works in real life to some extent and I have to say her wool jackets are wonderful.
My issue with the baggy style is while I have body hang-ups (who doesn't  ) clothes that fit well look more flattering on me than anything tent like ( I look bigger than ever if I wear something like that)
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