| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| ScarySara |
downsizing to smallholding in S Wales, how to make money?Hi, I'm ScarySara, although not scary (I hope) it's been my user name for so long I can't think of another.My hubby and I are planning to downsize to a small holding in South Wales this time next year (to maximise income from bonuses in current jobs). We both currently work in the IT industry. Paul, my OH, is a software developer working in London and I run an IT project office in a company in Bracknell. We currently live in Ascot. So, bugger all useful skills there then! but - my parents run a small holding\B&B in Herefordshire and I have a horse so we have a very vague idea. We have convinced ourselves that we must do this but having investigated further are not sure we can live off of it so I'm hoping people can give me an idea whether this really is feasible. We are looking for a smallholding with at least 5 acres, needs a 2 bed house, stabling for at least 2 horses, a workshop and something that can be convered in to a 3 unit B&B. We reckon we can afford £300k and will still have a mortgage so South Wales is the only place we can afford and my hubby will continue to work as he is now for 5 years, working from home 2/3 days a week and travelling up to London and staying over 2/3 days a week. I plan to run a 6 person B&B and have a good idea of income that can be expected from that and everyone says it ain't enough to pay a mortgage! especially as it is only worth doing this if hubby can give up his job in the not too distant future too. ideas on making extra money: - grow own veg and have some surplus to sell plants - LOVE growing plants eggs - chicken and duck livery - have my own horse, which will need company, so can offer DIY or Part livery for 1\2 horses offer stabling as part of B&B, could then accompany rides with guests honey from bees make jam, biscuits, cakes, pies, bread etc I make mosaics, mosaic anything - tables, pictures, pot stands, bowls whatever keen\good photographer - for cards, perhaps pictures (not keen on taking pics of people i.e. weddings) pressed flower cards and pictures jewellery making - some experience material things - cushions, bags, nic naks etc My husband currently has a fully kitted professional level carpentry workshop which we will bring the kit with us. He will not have time to make furniture etc but would it be something you could let for occasional use? he can make things like dove cots, bird tables, bird houses for sale we don't think we are up to having animals for food, still a bit too sentimental for that. so - any of this likey to make any money? how do you find outlets? We do not have a specific property in mind so do not know whether selling stuff from our own place is feasible. is it easy to get in to a farmers market? do things like farm shops exist that you can participate in? what outlets do people use to sell crafts and food stuffs? what can you expect to make? any help greately apreciated, we are currently desperate not to see our dream slip away. Thank you in advance for any help and suggestions you may have |
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| sally_in_wales |
first thing, having a dream is a very good thing, don't let anything put you off that dream.
Secondly, its going to be tough. Remember that you will have things like professional insurance to factor in, which can easily eat a lot of your income in the first year or so, and that you are planning on moving to a part of Wales where a lot of people do the things already on your list and where a fair part of your possible market is seasonal. Think about whether you can split your proposed income generating activities into 'tourist season' and 'quiet season' tasks, if all goes well, you could be far too busy with guests in the summer to work on mosaics for example, but the winter might be a good time to concentrate on that- but then you need a market for them. Re the wood workshop. My immediate feeling is that renting out access to it could be a bit of a minefield both from insurance perspective and also from the point of knowing that everything is handled the way you would yourself. But maybe there are some time effective overlaps here to explore- could you for example, create a range of furniture that is produced in kit form by yourselves for the buyer to assemble and mosaic themselves? Combine that with occasional 'come and stay at our B&B and we'll teach you how to put it all together' classes, and that might be a product line that can be worked on as time allows but be available for sale all year round. Look at what other items people look for in kit or partially assembled/unfinished form, could any of those be a useful way to maximise profit from your workshop whilst reducing the time that would be needed if you took the item right through to finished? |
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| Nick |
Welcome aboard!
A million questions (many that haven't occurred to you yet, I'm sure). I hold almost no answers, except to say the trip from South Wales to London is tolerable, assuming he's staying away? Doing it every day, even for 2/3/4 days a week is hard. Very, very hard. Whereabouts in Herefordshire is your mum? 300k might still get you something suitable round here as long as it needing a coat of paint isn't an issue. |
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| Mary-Jane |
What ever you do, make sure one of you has a steady income from somewhere that is not reliant on the smallholding in any way, shape or form - or you'll be broke in 6 months. That was the best piece of advice given to us when we did exactly the same thing 5 years ago. | ||||
| Mary-Jane |
Oh boy, oh boy - yes (she says wearily) 
Why don't you come up to Wales and meet some of us here? There's a very strong DS membership from Herefordshire right out across most parts of Wales - do a 'Grand Tour' and stop in to see a few of us on the way and see what we've all been doing. |
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| carlseawolf |
welcome sara'
Sorry i can't help you on small holding matters as i've only got allotment but looking to expand at the moment into a field and possible livestock. What i could possibly help you with is the marine larder in south west wales as i was a fisherman in the bristol channel for about 7 years as well as other parts of the country. Good luck with your adventure! |
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| BahamaMama |
Hello and welcome, you are not too far from a few of us in the South East. I work for a well known software company on Thames Valley Park 
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| RichardW |
At least one of you needs to keep the IT job but work from home full time doing it.
The smallholding side wont keep you on such a small acreage unless you grow very high value crops & HAVE A MARKET FOR THEM before you start. Like a market garden / garden center/ polytunnel city. Better to buy a smaller place with no borrowings so you need less income. You can get places for less money with what you want. Richard |
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| Rob R |
The first thing to do is to find your area/place, with only a vague idea of what you want to do- having a set idea and then trying to find a location to match those ideas is bound to be a headache, and prepare to be very flexible- chances are that what you start out doing or what you have a real passion for won't be the things that work best, so don't put yourself in a box and flog yourself to destitution doing something just because you want to.
Rather than looking at what you can afford in assets, I'd look at what is the level of income you'd like to maintain & see then if you can afford the assets to make that a reality. If you can live like a very frugal tramp, it'll help  but always present yourself well to customers.
Take a good look at everything other people in the area are doing to make a living, research every income stream, pricing, logistics, trade, etc. Then try to think of something different, using the same strengths that the site/area has & playing upon these but not aspiring to be the same as anyone, as those markets will be harder to crack due to possible oversupply & definite established loyalty in the market. In the end, be different, but not too different, fads are easy to get caught up in and can be expensive to establish, with a good initial response (people trying it because it's different) followed by a waning return in the long run (as everyone gets bored of the radical new and possibly more expensive product & go back to the old faithfuls). Every smallholding will need a core, focused enterprise that remains the main purpose of your business (sounds like the B&B for you) and do that really well, while other complimentary enterprises may follow on to bring extra income, they shouldn't get in the way of the primary enterprise & it's income generating potential. Finally, don't listen to every crackpot on the internet or elsewhere (myself included, in fact 'specially not me, ) as very few are experts & the experience & what you can draw from it is usually more valuable than the actual advice. Have a positive attitude too- you must have useful skills, else you wouldn't even consider leaving your current life, but aove all you will need the ability to learn new skills & to recognise when paying someone else is money well spent. Disasters happen to everyone, no matter what they say, the sucessfulk people learn more from these than they do from the good times (which are there just to make it seem worthwhile, occasionally). Read lots too, but stick to positive practical articles/books like this one, that give you the kind of advice that can be applied to many areas. Good luck! |
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| Brownbear |
Making money from many diverse sources is of course a vital part of smallholding. Camping and caravanning is a useful source of income, but remember not to take payment in clothes-pegs and lucky heather.
Cooking cakes and making preserves is an excellent way of providing delicious afternoon snacks, but at a market you will be competing with 7,500 other smallholders with the same idea. The fights for the spot nearest the entrance to Laura Ashley makes crusties brawling over the Big Issue vendor's slot next to the cashpoint look tame. One poor woman recently ended up impaled on a rustic umbrella. If you or your partner have any amusing deformities, you could display yourself in public for a fee. Traditional folk ballads: the ability to sing and play a musical instrument will keep you happily alone for hours on end. Do it in the street and shopkeepers may well be willing to bribe you to relocate to the premises of their competitors. Domestic Stock shoots - these are for the aspirant sportsperson with a weak nerve. The hunters take position in the branches of trees and bag for the pot whatever old fowl, dry goats or moribund pet rabbits you choose to release for them. The possibilities are endless. |
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| vegplot |
There's always prostitution. | ||||
| Rob R |
How's that going for you? |
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| Chez |
I think that Rob's advice is good - don't let other people knock your dreams; but be practical about it. And keep some kind of 'day job' going for one or both of you, part-time. | ||||
| mousjoos |
Welcome. Had I had any notion of the feasibility Brownbear's suggestions I'd never have moved to France! | ||||
| Rob R |
Oh yeah, you may have guessed, maintaining a sense of humour about life is one absolute essential. | ||||
| vegplot |
Cash flow forecasts are proving a little difficult. |
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| Rob R |
It didn't work for me, neither. | ||||
| Chez |
Mochyn will be along in a minute to chip in. I believe that next year she will be selling tickets to her pig-artificial-insemination-in-the-mud event.
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| Mary-Jane |
Bless. Only mochyn...and only on Downsizer...
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| mousjoos |
Is it wise to pre-book? This sort of thing doesn't come along very often, I'm given to understand. |
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| Mary-Jane |
*SSSPPPPFFTSTTTTTTTT...* Damn - that's my tea spluttered all over the screen...
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| ScarySara |
well what an amazing response! Thank you to everyone for the suggestions, perhaps prostitution is one step too far to realise the dream (not quite that desperate yet) but there is some really useful info in there.
Paul and I have been thinking about what we can do that's different, and we've got a few ideas. I think the crux of the problem is we know what we can make from B&B (and it ain't enough) so we need to keep one job, perhaps even both and work from home part time to cover someone being on-site 24/7 (I doubt either of our employers would go for us WFH full time but we both manage part time from home already) and that gives us some lea-way to either find jobs closer or find out what can make us money. please keep the ideas and information coming ! |
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| ScarySara |
My Mum and Dad are just outside Kimbolton, nr Leominster. |
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| ScarySara |
that's a great idea! I had not thought of combining the mosaic and wood stuff too |
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| Chez |
Are you sure you can't grit your teeth and raise some kind of animal for meat? Done on a small scale it does feed you - and brings in a bit of extra cash if you sell half / whole pigs or lambs to family and friends. You take them to the slaughterhouse and they come back in nice anonymous plastic bags that you put in the freezer and don't think about for a few weeks. | ||||
| ScarySara |
that would be fab! we are thinking about visiting the area 7th \ 8th April. Any one want to offer to show us around their smallholding and show off what they do? We're staying the night near Lampeter and I guess we will mainly be in the Lampeter \ Camarthen area. |
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| Rob R |
I wish they did. She's quite clear she doesn't want to keep animals for meat, now sshhh! 
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| ScarySara |
perhaps in the future. I will only buy free range meat and get the whole "it's better to know it's had a great life" but can I imagine not giving them names but ending up with more mouths to feed than I can afford? Oh Yes. |
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| Mary-Jane |
We're on the coast, just outside Cardigan in Y Ferwig, about 50 minutes north of Carmarthen. you're most welcome to pop into ours. I'm away until 8th - but will be back later on in the afternoon. |
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| Chez |
Speaking as someone who has a chicken called Mary Mad Chicken who is really not all that productive and comes and sits in the rocking chair in the kitchen, I hear what you are saying .
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| Nick |
It's worth pointing out, because Sara is new here, that Chez is our Care In The Community project, and has a secure connection from her 'room'. | ||||
| Chez |
Oh bog off, pants-boy
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| Louisdog |
Don't discount the animals for meat thing too much; I was one of the "never will I" camp, but we have crossed over and it gets easier and easier, even for the squeamish and sentimental like myself. | ||||
| Blacksmith |
Welcome !  Best of luck with your endeavours.
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| Ginkotree |
I have not laughed so much reading a welcome in such a long time, its really done me good. Love all the advice, wish I knew you guys when I first thought of this "dream to reality thing."..and prostitution was discussed as an income once by the locals who passed a rumour around that I had set up as a brothel. I found this out from an old man who came to call...because I came here with two young ladies who were brave enough to join me in being refugees from London, to help look after my two young sons and then myself while I was having treatment.
I invited him in for a cup of tea anyway, sorry to dissapoint him, where he sat and told me all about himself for the afternoon., He then told me I should get out more so that these rumours would stop. He returned with members of his family, a very posh car and took Jack and me to market, where we bought some ducks. |
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| boisdevie1 |
Look into the viability of raising goats for meat. To sell. I heard an article on the Food Programme on Radio 4 and they said that goat meat was being imported. Here's a link to a NW company that already does this.
http://www.goat-meat.co.uk/ |
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| Nick |
I'm not suggesting FOR A MOMENT that ScarySara should move into prostitution in her new country role for a moment, but if it's to be considered, please beware of the pitfalls. Our local celebrity whore is Lindi St Clair (Miss Whiplash), purveyor of leather and PVC to the upper classes. She lives round here, but does not get on with the locals. Kind of, rings the fuzz because the farmer next door is being unreasonable driving his tractor during the night at harvest time, thing.
She recently put her car in a ditch, and spent 22 hours upside down because no-one called the rescue services. Local police sources suggest that various locals knew of her predicament, but did nothing. London tart to legal profession who keeps ducks. |
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| Brownbear |
So you don't think the locals will be organising a whip-round for her, then? | ||||
| Nick |
The very unofficial line from the rozzers is that she got what she deserved. Clearly, they are making inquiries into how such a tragic event could have happened, but whip round? No, that's more her job. | ||||
| ScarySara |
Life is a whole lot duller round here!
remind me never to piss you lot off tho |
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| Lorrainelovesplants |
Like eveyone here who when they read your post, took a deep breath and thought - oh yes, that was me, X many years ago, with a dream.....
The reality is hard work, poverty and aching tiredness. The many downsizers who havnt replied to your post is testament to this. I suggest (like many before) that you seriously go on a smallholders experience weekend. Pay the small amount of money that this will require and get an idea about what it is actually like. A really good idea would be to do it in early spring when its very busy, chaotic and depressing. It is not like the Good Life. Whilst Im not knocking it, it is very hard. We hit lowest this time last year, when we were thinking of selling up. Only after 5 years have we started to make a profit on the holding (a whole £4 this financial year!). OH has now been made redundant, and with 2 school age kids thats not funny. We have no mortgage. If the wage earner in your family was made redundant how would you be set to carry on? A hard question, but one you need to ask yourself. Actually prostitution was an option we both considered.............. |
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| Ixy |
hmmm to be honest i dont think any of the things you mentioned will give you an income as such. selling surplus eggs, plants and things is a good way to offset the cost of what you're doing. similar with raising animals - unless you do it in a fairly big way (and dont underestimate how much time that takes up - will it leave time to run a B&B and craft business aswell?) it wont produce an income but will give you a cheap(er) freezerful of meat that you know where it came from etc.
for me life is mostly now a game of "what can i go without next to avoid having to get a proper job again" i'm just lucky that i'm so obsessed with cows i don't want anything else if i had a house to run and kids to rear i couldnt do it!
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| SusieG |
Hi Sara,
Just noticed your post regarding relocating to Wales. You can afford North Wales too, with money to spare! My Mum in Law's Welsh stone 3 bedroomed house, plus outbuildings, a large yard and 4 acres of land and fabulous sea views across the Menai Straits towards Anglesey is currently For Sale...... offers in the region of £250k! We haven't instructed an Estate Agent yet, but it was on eBay recently to see what response we got. If you look on completed items on eBay (item number 140313936240) you will see some photographs of the land, the house, outbuildings and the superb views etc. Good luck to you and your family in your 'dream'. Best regards..........Susie G |
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| Ginkotree |
Regardless of all the warnings of how tiring it all might be etc its your dream and somehow nothing will put you off.
The posting that said we are looking back and thinking that was us is precisely right in my case, I was bought up in Bracknell, worked in Sunningdale and lived/worked in london before moving to south wales to live my dream.(I did have some years in cornwall too) No matter what has been challenged over the years I would not have missed this for anything. Its a way of life that makes sense more than anything else. A good way of getting a taste of the way of life is to join Woof,you exchange work for food, lodgings and knowledge,. We have had many woofers at the farm from all over the world, some have become long term friends and almost part of the family.Some have gone home to start thier own projects. If you need a base in Carmarthen then you are welcome , good luck
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| Lorrainelovesplants |
Save up.............and offer to help( I mean really help) on a few farms (peferably in the winter or early spring).
get a realistic idea of how crap it can be...everyone thinks its lovely when the sun is shining, but when youve piled up 6 dead lambs and dragged a dea ewe 20 yards in the sleet, ad youv taken your shoulder out for the 2nd time in 6 weeks...... |
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| Lorrainelovesplants |
Oh, and forget making a decent wage as a smallholder. My main money comes from teaching people how to do it....... | ||||
| gil |
I've hesitated to comment on this thread, but my first reaction to the title was hollow laughter.
I don't think a smallholders experience weekend will give you enough of an idea of what it will be like - it's just a weekend, an event, a pleasant interlude of learning. Nor would WOOFing - woofers have a shorter working day, and few heavy responsibilities, including financial. Neither experience will equip you for the hard work, stress, exhaustion, and poverty of doing smallholding day after day, month after month, year after year. Nor for the possible boredom and the loneliness / social isolation that can result from rural poverty. Fuel poverty is particularly bad - unable to heat your dwelling sufficiently, and having to avoid leaving the holding as much as possible because you can't afford to put petrol in the vehicle. I reckon you need one and a half off-farm incomes to survive, and even then you won't be 'well-off'. Remember that many jobs available in rural areas are often low-skilled and low-paid, and seasonal. But at least you've got each other. |
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| tahir |
Same here. |
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| towerhill |
God I understand this. I really do - it takes years to get comfortable and warm. We pay electricity off of a meter so we don't have bills coming in. It's not nice going out at 6 am in a snowstorm to get logs in - logs which although dry don't want to burn because the air is damp. old buildings tend not to have cavities also - our entire back wall got ice on the inside this winter. I'm cladding this now with found stone from the land with a 5 inch cavity stuffed with thermal stuff including old wool and newspaper. Car wise - I've found a way to filter the "red" from red diesel but we only use that in the lorry if desperate as the customs folk can still find out if they test! I've not seen the beetle with more than a 1/4 tank for years. It helps if everyone gets on. When it gets really cold we tend to all snuggle in with the radio on or an old Hammer House movie. Thing is that NO1 son is not into snuggling much any more.. |
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| Chez |
I don't know. One of my fondest memories family memories is of pushing a dead ewe in a wheelbarrow across a snowy field in horizontal sleet, singing 'Good King Wenceslas' with my Mum and sister, one Boxing Day.
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| Mary-Jane |
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| Lorrainelovesplants |
Its serious though.
Im sure the many people who have hesitatedto reply to this thread including me - 1. have all had the same dream (long ago) 2. would not want to totally depress anyone..... BUT If I had just bought a pretty picture postcard cottage somewhere and kept my normal well paid job, I wouldnt have to scrounge firewood at every waking moment because I cant pay for Flogas, tell the kids to put a jumper on because we cant pay for Flogas, not go on holiday because a). w cant afford it, and b). we have animals and Im getting older...........Im 47 now, and realistically think we have perhaps another 5 years here, before OH and I have to leave because we physically are kackered, and cantafford to pay for someone to do the backbreaking hard work. And, I think its harder to find somewhere than it was even 5 years ago. My lowest point was about 2 and a hlf years ago, and hated it here because we were so poor and things were tough. Now I mke ends meet bydoing nightshift lambing 40 miles away for a shit £7 per hour. And i agree that you need 1 and a half off farm jobs to make it wrk.... |
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| Ginkotree |
I agree with EVERYTHING that has been said and advice, about how tough this way of life is,when you dont think you can do "this" anymore,sit and ask yourself, who did you think you were taking something like this on  . But I still would not swap and cannot imagine being anywhere else .If I was to move on, I would still want to "downsize" somehow, as I always have done.
Yes, there are the dead sheep and the loss and grief,poverty and stress, the bitter cold when your hands are so painful you think they will snap, the ouch of the fall ... But for every low there is a high and to see new life, follow the cycles of life and seasons from one begining to another, to taste the fruits of ones labour and serve a meal that everything that is eaten is from your own hands,even down to the wine,by the warmth of a real fire is an amazing feeling. Because of lifes circumstances I have not achieved this often enough,but that I have allowed my children to taste food That pure and fresh in this day and age is priceless.In a world where so much is expected and taken for granted, I am glad to say I still feel it is a privaledge to have this oppertunity in life.I heard the stories of many old folk when I was a child and know I am still better off than they ever were,and so are my children. Perhaps a warped sense of humour helps
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| Chez |
I'll say. Having grown up with that kind of background, though, I have found that I am desperately unhappy now, when I cannot do some of those thing. Perhaps I'm a social misfit - but it's worth it. |
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| Ginkotree |
I can really relate to that, I lived the "London Life "and did it well..but there was always something missing and the unhappiness was overwhelming sometimes.The Welsh people have a word, Heirath, a calling; a home sickness of the Soul ;and I think that is why I say live your dream. I have had some griefsome times here but have never felt the depths of not being in the right place and living a life that seems to make the most sense,more Real and True to Myself. I was almost 40 when I moved here 13 years ago, with two young children,I realise now the first 40 years of my life were all about getting Here. So dont loose sight of where you are going Chez, and if ever you do find yourself in the "right place", you will be well equipt to Live it....Its been a Very Steep learning curve for me regardless of having lots of insights and knowledge, but I love the journey of discovery and that part of it,with its teachings as well.
I have been lucky in that the woofers I have had have always joined in with family life and have realistically shared the truth of the situation here. People who are looking towards this as a future have always gone away with questions answered and new ones formed.Better than to go in to it blind,or maybe not, some of us would maybe have missed out on many Millionaire moments if we had not taken the plunge. 
One of my many sayings is..."Well that would never have happened in my back garden in London...".......like the Downsizer Skill sharing weekend ,for instance,,,and Meeting such a tribe of inspiring "Misfits" such as yourself.
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| wellington womble |
I think it was Bob Flowerdew, when asked about getting a job in gardening, said something along the lines of 'Don't' Get a job 4 days a week, and spend the other three gardening. Better yet, get a nice job for three days a week, and have three days gardening and one of rest.' I thought it was good advice. Hobbies are wonderfully fulfilling and soul-nuturing things, but there is a difference between pottering in your garden, and having to produce veg for the table or go hungry. Hobbies are enjoyable, if you rely on them they become Work. The difference between choosing to take part in something in your spare time, and having to do it to survive is huge - especially when so much is out of your control (weather, stock prices, feed prices, meat sales etc etc etc)
My advice to anyone in this situation would be to buy or rent a small smallholding, or a cottage and a field but keep your existing jobs on whatever basis you can, part time between you. That may mean one person working full time and the other not, one person may have seasonal work, work away, commute or whatever. The other can run the (very small) small holding, with a little help from the other in their spare time. You won't have the money worries, and can give it up whenever you like. Dabbling will be much more enjoyable. If one of your 'hobbies' turns out to be lucrative, then you can gradually move into making it your livelihood, but with a realistic idea of what's involved both work and expenses wise. Personally, I wouldn't though. Hobbies that need to support you have a horrible way of turning into Work of the most unpleasant kind, ruining a previous source of pleasure (and I say this as a person who loves her job and finds it incredibly satisfying on many levels) I know that's an awful bang down to earth, but I think it's more realistic. I'd love to have a little smallholding, with a kitchen garden, and polytunnel, and lots of fibre producing animals to sell the fibre by mail order and grow cut flowers to sell at market. But in real life, I'd just like to work part time, and make those things my hobbies, rather than grow to resent them as my work. |
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| peter from cyprus |
welcomeLots of good comments on this subject and some strong advise. We came to cyprus 7 years ago and we have lived our DREAM. Bought some land and built a timber framed bungalow and now at the age of 68 we feel its now time to live our second dream and relocate to north devon or cornwall with a few chickens and a veg plot. Life is to be lived as much as we can and just grow old together and what ever gets in your way.step over it, go round it ,but live your dream, if it does not work out at least you tried and is not what it is all about/Good Luck to you both Peter |
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| Brownbear |
We're doing it the other way round. My bunny-blasting and deer management business, the steel fabrication (supported by some teaching), and Madame Bear's food concern (supported by a lot of teaching, and just getting going after three years of planning). We mean to have a decent income going first and then to look for a suitable property from which some or all of the concerns can be carried out. | ||||
| Treacodactyl |
To counter that a bit I've always worked doing something for the money as I've always planed to earn enough to do what I want later in life. I've often wondered what it would be like actually working at something I enjoyed and how much more enthusiasm I would have. |
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| Pel |
Welcome. Looks like you got lots of advice.
My only bit to add is you may need more than 5 acres, especially if the land is boggy. Maybe see if you can afford nearer 8+ especially if you are doing livery or intend to have animals for meat in the future or even dairy (a few goats etc). If you have 12+ acres / 5 hectares you become an agricultural holding, which means its easier to get planning to build a barn etc. You will be able to afford a good place in west-wales too, there is nice smallholding on the smallholding centre website, near lampeter 2-3bed house, 14 acres, garage/barn (thats also has a sink, toliet and shower in..used to be the old cottage) thats £245k |
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| wellington womble |
In my experience, it stops being enjoyable and starts feeling work very quickly. Like getting muddy. Getting muddy when you have the option of hot bath is fun. Getting muddy when you have only more mud to look forward to is depressing. But that may be just me, of course. |
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| tahir |
It does get wearing, every time I walk around the orchards all I can see is the jobs we haven't done, not the ones we have. | ||||
| Rob R |
Mud is depressing, but getting rid of the things that causes the mud is such an exhilarating experience that it lasts for such a long time. The worst trap to fall into on a smallholding is thinking you've got a way of doing things that is the best way- it isn't. Always strive to improve & refine- it makes the work more interesting and more productive. |
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| Treacodactyl |
But isn't that mainly down to the fact you're not there doing the work? I'd much rather be doing something I enjoyed even if there's loads to do. Like many people, we like growing our own fruit and veg and if an opportunity arose we'd love to do that as a job even though it would mean very long hours, loads of hard work etc. The only thing stopping us is the question whether you can make any money at all doing it. I suppose everyone is different so you need to carefully think through what it will be like. |
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| tahir |
I guess you're right, in my case a lot of it is frustration at not being around to do those jobs. |
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| TheGrange |
I can concur, living in the basin of a hillside we have constanly striven to irradicate as much mud or the making of mud as possible, its cost too much to even think about in digging out and deep filling hardcore to allow the drainage to happen well under ground level.. but walking into the yard and not having to dig out doors so you can open them is something i've not regretted doing. But these essential jobs do add to the cost of your dream... mud and no hot water isnt funny  and having to strip wash while the plumbing is sorted, or someones allowed the rayburn to go out can become tiresome fast!
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| Rob R |
Yep, doing the basics first really makes things run more smoothly- yes you can save by not having a decent base to work on but every job is harder (and takes longer) with mud, cleaning up afterwards takes longer & customers are less inclined to visit (if you're selling stuff from the smallholding) so I reckon it would pay for itself very quickly. |
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| Mary-Jane |
Ah yes...I know this feeling so well. It was Marie Curie who said "One can never see what has been achieved...one only sees what remains to be done".
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| Mary-Jane |
I would add two thing to this: 1. Remember that land has to be *managed*. Fencing, seeding, cutting, silage, grazing etc. This is something we learnt very, very quickly - and it's bloody hard work. It can't just sit there doing nothing or it'll be no use to man nor beast before you know it; 2. Please don't go into stables/livery etc. When we were looking for our place (which took two years to find) there were an extraordinary number of smallholdings for sale that were horsey places having gone out of business - often with a divorce following on behind. You will not make money out of horses in Wales any more. End of. |
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| Ixy |
I think whether you can do what you love as a job depends on how much you REALLY love it. I used to think I loved horses, and always said to myself after work experience at a stable that I didnt want to work in a stable because it would take the enjoyment out of having my own horse one day - i actually couldn't find any other work though and ended up working in various stables and I was right! after a day wit horses, the LAST thing I wanted to do when I went home was muck out ANOTHER stable and groom ANOTHER pony.
Then I found out I actually loved cows, and I didnt mind getting up at 3.30am to feed calves, working 4.30am til 7pm and then feeding the calves again...in november  and now I have my own, then I go to another farm twice a day to sort theirs out and then i go visit people with some to look at theirs and then i go on bovine themed days out and holidays and i'm still not bored. whereas before i got sick of jobs within the first 6wks usually.
at the end of the day, nobody MAKES anybody become a smallholder - you have to work really hard to be one, so it can't be that bad. There's bad bits, but since when did good things come without hard work/for free/without some bad bits???! Maybe that's what smallholding is, working long and hard to produce something REALLY good. |