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Bodger

Dutch Elm Disease and ask Die Back?

These two problems with trees here in the UK have received quite a bit of publicity but has anyone heard of their being any problems with Sycamores?

In the last two years, our large previously healthy tree has started to die. Some bows have obviously died, while other parts of it hardly have any leaves. There are portions of the tree which are in full leaf but this season, well over half of it is has been affected in the way that I've described. scratch There isn't any sign of damage to the bark at the base of the tree or anything like that.
Ty Gwyn

Squirrels most likely.
Bodger

No squirrels in our area. I've seen one since 1988 and I shot that.
Nick

Could it be old age? Everything dies. How old is the tree?
Bodger

it was here when we came in 1988 and it was a fair size then. I've no idea how long they're supposed to live for.
I'll try and get some pictures that illustrate whats going on.
dpack

they do shed limbs/die back/die sometimes ,this can be due to a variety of.
one fungi that seems fairly common shows as small red " bumpy dots "on the bark and can kill a limb or entire tree.

squizzers do like the bark and sap but they do leave obvious chewing evidence and if the "last of the mohican tails"got shot decades ago i suspect fungi.
Bodger

Dead bit.









Healthy bit









Not very healthy bit.








The whole tree.




dpack

it looks like a fairly elderly specimen ,perhaps a bit of surgery would prolong it's life , it might look a bit stumpy when the dead and ill bits get removed.

take the top (poorly looking bit)off imho and leave the bottom half to see if it survives (it might).

making it smaller will also reduce the load on the roots which might revive it a bit (and will certainly prevent the top popping down to the conservatory for a nice mulled cider during a storm ).
Mistress Rose

I don' t think there is anything worse than leaf miner affecting sycamore at the moment, although I think there might be some risks from the continent. Virtually every plant can get things like phytophra though, so check for any bleeding parts of the trunk. Is there any compaction round the roots, or has there been any change in the water table that you are aware of? All things that can affect mature trees, apart from the dreaded squirrels.
Hairyloon

Is the tree particularly important to you? The easiest answer by far is to have it down.
I would not want a sick tree that big that close to my house: it only needs to drop a twig to go through the conservatory.

Found this. Not suggesting that is what you've got or not.
Tavascarow







My neighbour down the road has paved his drive & a nice horse chestnut which has no illness whatsoever shows symptoms just like yours.
Purely down to water stress.
They transpire hundreds of gallons of water a day.
Half the roots on your tree aren't getting very much.
(IMHO).
Bodger

The driveway has been like that since before 1988 and thankfully, the tree is quite a bit further from the conservatory than it looks.
Nick

But the tree was thirty years smaller.
Ty Gwyn

Is`nt that area a gravel/chippings surface?not surpressing any drainage.
Hairyloon

But the tree was thirty years smaller.

But it will have grown with the water supply/drainage that the drive provides.
What has changed?
Nick

But the tree was thirty years smaller.
But it will have grown with the water supply/drainage that the drive provides.
What has changed?

Ah, ok. I know nothing, was just idly suggesting.
tahir

Massaria?

There's lots oif new pests cane disease on their way, I believe massaria affects london plane and sycamore, prolly worth talking to a local tree bod
tahir

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/fr/massaria tahir

sooty bark disease buzzy

Perhaps some militant conservationists, many of whom regard Sycamores as "Satan's Dandruff", have made a night raid and poured a few pints of weed killer round the tree. Shocked

Henry
Mistress Rose

I didn't realise those diseases had arrived; thought they were still in the offing. I heard a talk by Dr. Webber a year or so ago and spoke to her afterwards, and she is very knowledgeable.

The fact the top of the tree is affected but the bottom looks all right in the picture probably means you will have to have a good look with binoculars for anything odd.
Falstaff

...Or get a ladder - Wink

No mushrooms growing out of the trunk, or from buried roots at any time ?

Honey fungus kills trees - but I don't know the symptoms.

Seems there is quite a lot of stuff that attacks "Satan's dandruff" which I didn't know about.
LynneA

From the RHS website:

Plane anthracnose/RHS Gardening
American sycamore ( Platanus occidentalis ) is most susceptible to the disease, whereas oriental plane ( P. orientalis ) is quite resistant...Young leaves and shoots may die back in spring, making the tree look as though it has suffered from frost damage (this is known as ?shoot blight...

The leaves exude a sap, which can attract aphids, and they can bring in disease too.
Slim

Ok, are we talking about a Platanus occidentalis like I would be familiar with? Your photo didn't quite look like one. Over here it's quite common for P. occidentalis to take on a good bit of anthracnose damage in the spring, and look like a dead tree, but then it leafs out again around this time and does just fine. The disease is worse some years than others, but doesn't usually do any real damage. It also doesn't affect just the top half of a tree. (also, if yours is a P. occidentalis, it's just a young'n still. They can get MUCH bigger: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buttonball_Tree )


Seeing as only a portion of your tree is affected, I would think that something is affecting the vasculature. It looks like you've ruled out root damage, which is suspect #1. Suspect #2 in my book is some disease or pest in the actual vasculature itself. That would be an unfortunate diagnosis.....
Hairyloon

Honey fungus kills trees - but I don't know the symptoms.
As I understand, there are many types of honey fungus and they are mostly secondary pathogens: very unlikely to attack a healthy tree.
Post mortem symptoms are bootlaces under the bark.
Slim

Okay, so I've just clicked through your photo of the healthy bit, and zoomed in.... that's not a sycamore at all, that's a maple Embarassed Laughing

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those sure look like Acer samaras

Is the U.K. suffering from the same not totally known syndrome that we are experiencing in some places over here called, for lack of a better name, "maple decline"?
tahir

Is the U.K. suffering from the same not totally known syndrome that we are experiencing in some places over here called, for lack of a better name, "maple decline"?

Not as far as I know
Hairyloon

Okay, so I've just clicked through your photo of the healthy bit, and zoomed in.... that's not a sycamore at all, that's a maple Embarassed Laughing
In English, sycamore is a species of maple, usually Acer pseudoplatanus...
dpack

just to complicate things i think there are hybrids of the acer family of trees. Slim


In England, sycamore is a species of maple...

Fixed that for you Wink
dpack

Laughing Nick


In England, sycamore is a species of maple...

Fixed that for you Wink

Oh, I've missed you.
Tavascarow

[quote="Slim:1443237"]
In England, sycamore is a species of maple...
I don't live in England (Cornish) & neither does Bodger who lives in Wales.
Yet the Sycamore is as common in these parts of the British Isles as in England. Wink
Nick

Has anyone got that Can Of Worms icon, please? Smile dpack

Laughing Laughing Laughing

i have been tree watching round here,york (england)and although there has been quite a few horse chestnuts felled by the"red weeping death" of some horrid fungal infection so far there seems to be no signs of the other recently recorded tree pathogens such as ash dieback and the various "exotic "diseases.

im hoping it stays like that cos there do seem to be a lot of "new"tree killers arriving.
Hairyloon


In England, sycamore is a species of maple...
I don't live in England (Cornish) & neither does Bodger who lives in Wales.
Yet the Sycamore is as common in these parts of the British Isles as in England. Wink As I said: in English, the sycamore is a maple.
Folk in America ought to learn to talk proper.
Tavascarow


In England, sycamore is a species of maple...
I don't live in England (Cornish) & neither does Bodger who lives in Wales.
Yet the Sycamore is as common in these parts of the British Isles as in England. Wink As I said: in English, the sycamore is a maple.
Folk in America ought to learn to talk proper.
Tis why the edicated use latin.
I've missed Slim as well.
Laughing
Nick


In England, sycamore is a species of maple...
I don't live in England (Cornish) & neither does Bodger who lives in Wales.
Yet the Sycamore is as common in these parts of the British Isles as in England. Wink As I said: in English, the sycamore is a maple.
Folk in America ought to learn to talk proper.
Tis why the edicated use latin.
I've missed Slim as well.
Laughing

Yes, those posts from New Cornwall are always welcome.
Slim


In England, sycamore is a species of maple...
I don't live in England (Cornish) & neither does Bodger who lives in Wales.
Yet the Sycamore is as common in these parts of the British Isles as in England. Wink As I said: in English, the sycamore is a maple.
Folk in America ought to learn to talk proper.


Back to the "living language" debates Rolling Eyes... don't forget that you folks saying "nappy" is just a weird neo-logism, and that we Americans saying "diaper" is more true to the past.

At any rate, that tree pictured is an Acer and therefore, diseases that afflict the Platanus genus need not be considered in this case
Hairyloon

At any rate, that tree pictured is an Acer and therefore, diseases that afflict the Platanus genus need not be considered in this case
Probably right, but I heard that sudden-oak death was killing larch...
(that's Quercus and Larix for avoidance of doubt).
Slim

larch

You mean tamarack? Very Happy

We actually call them larch most of the time here.... But I could have gone with Hackmatack
Tavascarow

At any rate, that tree pictured is an Acer and therefore, diseases that afflict the Platanus genus need not be considered in this case
Probably right, but I heard that sudden-oak death was killing larch...
(that's Quercus and Larix for avoidance of doubt).
& the fungus that causes sudden oak is carried & spread by rhododendron ponticum.
dpack

larch

You mean tamarack? Very Happy

We actually call them larch most of the time here.... But I could have gone with Hackmatack


would that be the first nation names?

some uk "first nation" plant names are quite good ,dur=oak and gives words such as durable,enduring etc etc
Tavascarow

larch

You mean tamarack? Very Happy

We actually call them larch most of the time here.... But I could have gone with Hackmatack


would that be the first nation names?

some uk "first nation" plant names are quite good ,dur=oak and gives words such as durable,enduring etc etc
I love this site. So which of our first nation tongues is that one from?
I've just checked the online Cornish dictionary & the translation for oak is Dar down here.
Ty Gwyn

And Derw or Derwen in Welsh Behemoth

larch

You mean tamarack? Very Happy

We actually call them larch most of the time here.... But I could have gone with Hackmatack


would that be the first nation names?

some uk "first nation" plant names are quite good ,dur=oak and gives words such as durable,enduring etc etc

Oak being from Ac, the launguage of the Saxon oppressors who still hold the Brythonic Kingdom of Elemete in their thrall, we are the Leodis!

Anyway....a small project I'm involved in with the council required some trees to be managed. three sycamores had started to die back from the crown and were felled. Unfortunately I didnt get more than 'fungus' as the cause.

these sycamore fundamentalists, do they do contract jobs, I'd like to call a hit on a neighbour's tree.
Hairyloon

these sycamore fundamentalists, do they do contract jobs, I'd like to call a hit on a neighbour's tree.
Presumably you've tried asking nicely?
Behemoth

No, I've deployed an attractive but vigorous climbing rose. Hairyloon

No, I've deployed an attractive but vigorous climbing rose.
A curious and evil strategy...
Bodger

I've just got this back from an enquiry with the forestry Commission.


TREE HEALTH DIAGNOSTIC & ADVISORY SERVICE

Hi John,

Further to our telephone call, I have attached our information sheet on honey fungus and our sampling guide for Phytophthora to give you an idea what you are looking for.

You need to peel back the bark with a chisel or knife where the lesions meet healthy tissue. If you find a white fungal sheet growing beneath the bark that will confirm honey fungus. On page 5 of the honey fungus guide the mycelium, or fungal tissue, is clearly evident beneath the bark of an affected tree. Should you confirm it, the best course of action is to remove the tree. If you wish to replace it, the list of less susceptible plants in the leaflet may be helpful. However, if there is no evidence of white mycelium and the plant tissue is just dead, Phytophthora might be the cause. This is a microscopic organism which will not be visible with the naked eye.

Unfortunately in the case of both these root pathogens, the prognosis for the tree is poor. Ideally you would remove the tree and if practicable, the large roots. However, this is often extremely difficult. Ultimately the key is to replant with species which are less susceptible, and if we can identify the organism involved, then it is possible to tailor replant choices.
dpack

drop it safely and make yourselves warm in winter Wink Mistress Rose

As it is a lone tree, you might just consider not bothering with a tree there for a few years. The FC are more concerned with woodland trees, so always consider replanting. In a wood, honey fungus is always present, and it tends to go for damaged or stressed trees. We get a lot of natural regeneration, so just let them get on with it, and healthy trees seem to come up in the same place. Falstaff

On the upside, if it IS Honey Fungus, there are a number of variants, or species, depending on which camp you belong to and they're good eating ! Smile NorthernMonkeyGirl

larch

You mean tamarack? Very Happy

We actually call them larch most of the time here.... But I could have gone with Hackmatack


would that be the first nation names?

some uk "first nation" plant names are quite good ,dur=oak and gives words such as durable,enduring etc etc

Oak being from Ac, the launguage of the Saxon oppressors who still hold the Brythonic Kingdom of Elemete in their thrall, we are the Leodis!

Anyway....a small project I'm involved in with the council required some trees to be managed. three sycamores had started to die back from the crown and were felled. Unfortunately I didnt get more than 'fungus' as the cause.

these sycamore fundamentalists, do they do contract jobs, I'd like to call a hit on a neighbour's tree.

If you declare independence before Saturday, will you let me back in without a passport? Laughing
tahir

The latest new pest to be confirmed here:

"A Forestry Commission spokesperson said:

“The oriental chestnut gall wasp has been discovered in one area of Kent.

“This is a pest that only affects sweet chestnut (Castanea) species of tree, and does not pose any risk to people, pets or farm livestock.

“We have launched an immediate investigation of the surrounding woodland and, once we have fully assessed the situation, we will swiftly take any appropriate action.”

Key facts:

· Oriental chestnut gall wasp is a pest that affects species of sweet chestnut tree. Only European sweet chestnut (Castanea sativa) is grown in significant numbers in Britain, and no other tree species in Britain is affected.

· The Forestry Commission is undertaking a full survey and analysis to determine the scale of the current outbreak and the potential cause of the outbreak.

· Once we have fully assessed the situation, we will swiftly take any appropriate action.

· Oriental chestnut gall wasp is a threat to sweet chestnuts in several regions of the world. It reduces nut production and can weaken the tree, leaving it vulnerable to other diseases.

· The UK has Protected Zone Status against this pest, and the plant health services must be notified of all pending imports of sweet chestnut planting material before its arrival in the UK so that a proportion can be inspected.

· As part of investigations into the outbreak, the new Observatree group of trained volunteers have agreed to help survey more widely for evidence of the pest.


A full statement has been published on our website at www.forestry.gov.uk/gallwasp, and will be updated as the situation evolves. The affected woodland is Farningham Woods, near Sevenoaks, Kent."
dpack

did the georgian and victorian "plant hunters" import a variety of pests that went on to attack plants that had been here for ages?

i've not heard of it,perhaps the pests/plant host died on the long sea voyage from jungle to glasshouse and garden,perhaps many plants were collected at the seed stage and so the problem was avoided.

most of the "invasive species" arrived as a nice addition to the garden but i dont recall any major "pest"imports by accident
sean

Phylloxera damn near wiped out the European wine industry. That's pretty major. dpack

Phylloxera damn near wiped out the European wine industry. That's pretty major.

i didnt know about the yankee aphids,from what i just read some folk think it was steamship transport being swift that let them survive unlike any on sail delivered boats ,which died,in the previous few centuries.

i spose as a container can be flown in perfectly "safe"(for the beasties)conditions from any where to anywhere in less than a day this is likely to be an ongoing problem
Slim


i spose as a container can be flown in perfectly "safe"(for the beasties)conditions from any where to anywhere in less than a day this is likely to be an ongoing problem

Just a matter of time. Over here we have as of relatively recently gained: emerald ash borer, asian longhorned beetle (super scary), hemlock wooly adelgid, etc, etc.....

New ones just keep popping up. We've got a lot of new nasty agricultural/garden pests as well. Leek moth, spotted wing drosophila, etc....
dpack

the Asian longhorn beetle has shown up in the uk but it was in a small area and spraying seems to have controlled it before it spread. Behemoth

Phylloxera damn near wiped out the European wine industry. That's pretty major.
And restocked from America. The idea of "terroir" being a marketing campaign to convince the French that it wasn't the old vines (as previously claimed) but the earth and climate that made the wine.
Mistress Rose

I hope they manage to contain that chestnut gall wasp. I know there were one or two diseases of chestnut that the FC were worried about, which is why imports of plant material were stopped.
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