| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| Chez |
eBay changing feedback procedure ...I've just discovered that you can no longer leave neutral or negative feedback for your buyers on eBay. What do other people feel about this? It's supposed to encourage buyers to be more honest about sellers; but as a seller it makes me feel very uncomfortable - some of the transparent 'community' feeling has gone. I don't like it .
|
||||||||
| cinders |
me either | ||||||||
| Rob R |
Oh yes, that is odd. I guess it stops your feedback rating being ruined by buyers that don't even complete on a transaction. | ||||||||
| Pilsbury |
no as far as I know the buyers can leave negative feedback for you but if they dont pay or mess you around you cant leave negative for them. so basically buyers can say what they like but you can only say nice things about them, very bad news, I can see lots of sellers dumping accounts reguarly if the buyers get it in for them and leave to much negative. |
||||||||
| Rob R |
Oh, I see; that is very stupid IMHO. | ||||||||
| Frewen |
This seems daft
I was going to put some things up for sale in the next couple of days, but it puts me off. I like to see how people conduct themselves all round, not just as a seller but as a buyer too. |
||||||||
| RichardW |
The problem was that buyers were being intimidated with threats of bad feed back by the seller if they made a complaint even though they had good reason. I can understand why they are making this decision but do think that perhaps they should have thought about it cos sellers need protection too. Personaly as a buyer I think that the sellers feed back should be made before the buyers because once you have ordered & paid thats all the seller needs to know to leave feed back. Trouble is most wont leave feed back till they see whay you are going to say about them first.
Justme |
||||||||
| goldy1 |
They had a re think on this and if the neg is not founded then some cercumstances it can be removed.
|
||||||||
| RichardW |
Sorted then | ||||||||
| Chez |
I think that's true when you are dealing with an honest, non-bonkers buyer. However, some people do leave negative without giving you a chance to resolve an issue etc. etc.. I (used to) leave feedback for buyers when I knew that they considered the transaction closed - ie, when they were happy with it. Sometimes they email to let you know, but more often than not, you only find out via their feedback. |
||||||||
| 2steps |
my feedback has suddenly jumped up but a few hundred ratings I don't really look to be honest and haven't used ebay much lately but I'm pretty sure it was nothing like that high
|
||||||||
| Soapnutter |
As a seller I don't see my responsibility is done until my buyer is happy with the goods they have received. So, I prefer to wait for the buyer to leave feedback to let me know the item has at least arrived safely. |
||||||||
| Soapnutter |
Mine has too, by about 50! |
||||||||
| RichardW |
The rises are due to another change. multipul feed back from the same buyer did not count but now it does.
So repeat sales help your figures which they should cos thats the real test of a good seller. Infact they should count as 2 or more votes realy. Justme |
||||||||
| RichardW |
But that does not affect the buyers duties to you which is what you are feeding back on. Not your responsibilities to them. Justme |
||||||||
| Pilsbury |
I would check what the feedback has been left for and make sure no one has hacked you account. |
||||||||
| 2steps |
there are no new comments cos that was my first though. It's up by about 400
thanks  that explains it as I often use the same sellers
|
||||||||
| RichardW |
No its legit they changed the system to count repeat sales which never used to count. Justme |
||||||||
| Chez |
But, if they were to become abusive after receiving the item or it was lost in the post and they were unreasonable, I would want to take that in to account when I left my feedback. If I feed back as soon as it goes in the post, then I don't have the opportunity to do that. I do see the point you are making - and I know that some people - both buyers and sellers, use the feedback system as a stick to beat people with. But in an ideal world, it should cover the entire scope of the transaction. And that transaction is not over until both parties are satisfied. |
||||||||
| RichardW |
And as a buyer I am not satisfied until the seller has left feed back. The seller puts them selves up for selling no one forces them to do it. As the "profesional" they should take the lead not wait to retaliate. I do agree that buyers also should not just leave bad feed back without contacting the seller first. Perhapse they should do it so that if bad is left it cant be done till after a message has been sent to the seller & time for a responce or a responce has passed. Personaly I follow my grans advice, if you have nothing nice to say STFU. I do some times leave bad feed back but only if the seller does one of a few things:
refuses to sell has baddly misdescribed the item or service & wont negotiate suddenly wants to charge more for a ancilary service that was esential to the sale (just had this when del was quoted as £180 & then wanted £400) & then wont sort it out. Most things can be sorted with communication with a reasonable buyer & seller. Mistakes ahppen its what you do about them that counts. Justme |
||||||||
| RichardW |
Abusive yes I agree but a lost item needs to be replaced or refunded no questions asked & its not the buyers responsibility its the sellers to chace round sorting it. Any less & you deserve bad feed back. I hate all these sellers claiming no responsibility for lost goods. They are traders & should take responsibility. Oh & yes you do have the op as you can add things to the feed back left for you. Justme |
||||||||
| Chez |
It still effects your feedback, though, if they leave you a negative. I agree completely with what you say - of course all those things are the seller's responsibility. But the buyer also has a responsibility to allow the trader time to fix things - and sometimes they don't, before going off and leaving neg on the bounce. |
||||||||
| Soapnutter |
I have feedback of 1100 and 99.6% positive and as far as I am concerned, until I know the buyer is happy then the transaction is not complete. It's just the way I do business in general. | ||||||||
| RichardW |
Yeh I know & that sucks. thats why i suggest a cool off period after bad is left that it should not go on the record till the seller has responded or had time to respond.
Justme |
||||||||
| RichardW |
And if you have a buyer who feels the same then neither of you get the feed back cos you are waiting for the other to do it first incase you dont like what they say about you. Justme |
||||||||
| Pilsbury |
I agree to an extent but take for example, I sold something on Ebay and it was bought on Sunday, I posted it at 10.30 monday morning first class and on wednesday I got an email from the buyer saying he hadnt recieved it and had i sent it yet and if i had could i send another one as it was obviously lost, i replied saying please give it another day but i cant control the post office, they emaild me again today saying it wasnt there and what was i going to do for them. Now i have told them that I will collect a claim form from the post office tomorrow and send them another item on monday if its still not there. I know I cant claim the compensation for 2 weeks but the buyer wont wait that long and I dont expect them to but if I had already left feedback I would be leaving myself open the negitive on the delivery part with no comeback that shows on my rateing and thats hardly fair. also as a buyer no one forces you to buy from any seller, but some people make all their income from Ebay so must sell, if you are not willing to leave feedback first then thats up to you but i have missed out on feedback scores more than once as people wouldnt leave it, Right or wrong that me |
||||||||
| RichardW |
So you are saying that you use the feedback to force good feed back about you then? From your example the buyer has done no wrong but because you are worried that they might make a legitimate statment about your service you wont give them their feed back? The delivery is your responsibility OK so you cant control the PO but its still your problem to ensure then item arrives in good time. Sound like you are doing all you can to do so & make good any problems so the buyer should not have any problems to complain about in the first place. I guess the customer is always right has long since left the building. Traders have the moral duty to meet minium service standards if they fail in these then feed back should be left with no strings attached or threatened (which happens all the time which is why ebay are changing things). If things go wrong its not the buyers fault (unless they dont pay but ebay have that covered). Buyers feed back should not be based on what they think about the sellers service standard. It should be based on if they are good buyers. They way it is now if the sale goes bad because the item is faulty, lost in the post, baddly described then both parties get bad feed back when only one deserves it. If you buy an item from a shop & you have a problem you have the right to complain (to them & others) but they dont try to rubbish your buying power in the high street getting you blacklisted with other shops unless you fail to pay. Justme |
||||||||
| Pilsbury |
I agree, I will replace the item but what if they give negative feedback because it didnt arrive within 24 hours? I cannot surly be expected to send out a replacement everyday until one arrives or at least until they tell me one arrives?
I am not worried they will make a legitament about my service becaues my service has been fantastic, the item was in the post less than 24 hours after it was paid for, all emails have been answered the same day, I have given a plan of what I intend to do and a time scale for doing it, what more should I be doing? but dispite all this you seem to be saying they can ligitamatly leave negative feedback that will affect the % that is the only thing people look at before considering if they will buy because my service is lacking, would i leave negative for them if they left negative for me then absolutly because I would feel they were unreasonable towards the service I have given them without discussing it with me, there is no reason for negative feedback if the service is good but it still happens. and just to mention if things go wrong its not always the sellers fault either, there are other people involved in the transaction as well ( post/ courier) so it should be reasonable for some leaway and understanding that way as well. |
||||||||
| lottie |
I am both a buyer and a seller on EBAY and on the whole I approve of the changes---if someone has sent promt payment then I've always given positive feedback ---without waiting for theirs first---they've fulfilled their bit. Incidentally I have never had negative feedback but have felt threatened and irritated by sellers who state they will send positive feedback after they have recieved feedback from you---this practice was becoming general and the new rules have stopped this abuse. | ||||||||
| RichardW |
1, That would be unreasonable & you can note it on the responce & use the traders section to try to get it fixed. If you can prove you have done the right thing. 2, Well thats why they changed the rules cos thats un fair to the buyer. Its called a revenge attack. 3, fault no responsibility yes. They are contracted to you not teh buyer so its your problem. I realise that some buyers are more trouble than they are worth (we used to sell 2-300 items per week via mail order & 1-2000 face to face) but without them you are not a trader. Justme |
||||||||
| ros |
suspicious me thinks that they emailed you as soon as they received the item and found that there was no proof of delivery as they didn't have to sign for it. who choses what level of record there is in the delivery system, I assume it's the buyer? |
||||||||
| Ian33568 |
Have a look at this:
http://www.craigslist.org/about/sites.html Some people are finding good results on this site. |
||||||||
| Frewen |
Well I'm not a trader and I'm not in a postition too jump through hoops.
I used to put up kids clothes, maternity stuff, yarn stash - household stuff that was decluttered. I never made much, but it meant things didn't lie around and someone else got a bargain. I try to post the next day but that's not always possible with two not yet at preschool. if something goes wrong with the transaction then I'll sort it out to the best of my ability; but often I can't replace something because I'm a private seller and there isn't a replacement, I don't feel inclined to list anything on Ebay in the present climate - I'd rather freecycle it or give it to charity. |
||||||||
| jema |
I agree with the changes.
Whilst I can see it being a problem for sellers, a symmetrical tit for tat system was flawed 
With the new system all sellers are now on a level playing field. |
||||||||
| Frewen |
The old system was flawed it's true - but it's not quite a level playing field.
I just went and read the policy update and if you are a power seller then buyers are blocked from being able to leave negative feedback for 7 days, So that's a cooling off period and gives the PO a chance to get the item to the buyer (minimising Pilsbury's problem) Why can't that be the same for all sellers? I don't know why I am getting bothered about it really - I've only ever had 100 odd transactions in total through e-bay
|
||||||||
| cinders |
I agree with what justme said a buyer should be left a message saying you must contact your seller to solve any problems before leaving feedback.Then a honest feedback from the buyer can be left.I think it's open to abuse but we'll wait and see | ||||||||
| goldy1 |
Tell them to check at there local depot My OH is having a problem getting a parcel that they put a card throught the door for on wed. still not arrived at depot today????? but whilst they were looking for that A parcel for me was descouverd dated recived in depot 9th. I have had no card through the door for It and I wasn't awar it was missing As the person sending it didn't tell me it was coming. |
||||||||
| Rob R |
No, that's wrong. The transaction is not complete until both parties have received what is due to them. And with the distance selling regs they still have a right to return the item, so it's not over until everyone is happy. We have a policy written on all listings of only providing feedback when we either receive feedback or when they let us know that they have received it & are happy with it- we go to the bother of sending them e-mails to let them know when it is despatched, it is only fair to get one when it is received. |
||||||||
| Rob R |
Essentially though by doing that you are providing a guarantee of the postal service, which the postal service only does if you pay extra, so buyers should pay the extra. |
||||||||
| lottie |
The problem was on Ebay that the tone and notes of some sellers regarding feedback was verging on the aggressive---so even people with a legitimate negative feedback comment to make wouldn't do it for fear of tit for tat posting. I personally have had no problems or need to complain but there were sellers I wouldn't buy from again as even though I was happy with their goods found their spiels regarding their feedback policies unpleasant. | ||||||||
| Rob R |
I wouldn't buy from them in the first place, whenever I buy from a seller who hasn't got a 100% feedback I look through to read their negatives. The buyer always has that right to look first & buy accordingly. Personally I think it would all be better if feedback was left anonymously in some way Ihaven't yet thought out. | ||||||||
| RichardW |
The seller has recived whats due to them (order & payment they are not due anu feed back thats optional) so as far as that side of the sale goes its complete. So as a buyer with a RIGHT to return an item would the type of sellers we are talking about then give be bad feed back for exercising my rights? I guess most of the responces we are getting are from good sellers not the ones making threats re feed back. The old system ment either both got good feed back or both got bad (or none) there was no truth to it as the buyer can be good & the seller bad & vise versa.
Exactly And warranty policies or lack off, selling for a mate, trade only (nicely side steeps lots of rules).
No as a buyer my contract is with the seller to sell & deliver the goods. If they choose to contract that part of their service out it is up to them to see that they choose a service that is suitable. they can & should charge the full cost of that service to the buyer. If the buyer wants a cheaper service they can request it at their risk. Failure to supply/deliver is breach of contract with the seller not the courier as far as the buyer is concerened. Its then up to the seller to sort out the breach of his contract with the courier / PO. To many fob the buyer off. Justme |
||||||||
| Rob R |
There are conditions attached to that right, if you break those conditions the seller also has a right not to issue a refund.
The buyer chooses the delivery options, you can't be held responsible if they choose the cheapest option available to them. You are also not obliged to deliver goods through ebay, hence the collection only option. Providing that information is provided before the buyer purchases there is nothing that says you are contracted to deliver. |
||||||||
| RichardW |
You could split hairs about all the what iffs for days, it still comes down to SOME sellers were threatening buyers when the sellers were at fault eBay spotted this & are trying to fix the problem.
Have they got it right now? No I dont think so. Is it better than it was before? Yes. Are some buyers terible? Yes Are to many traders are hiding from their legal responsibilities. yes Justme |
||||||||
| Rob R |
Point taken but I wasn't splitting hairs, just challenging the validity of the above statement. I was also thinking of an item I sold on ebay that was collection only & is still sat in our yard two years later. Now it's not mine but it is occupying space on my property- from talking to sellers of larger items this is quite a common problem. Do I leave positive feedback because he's paid or negative because he hasn't collected? (although it's irrelevant now).
|
||||||||
| toggle |
is it still his after 2 years of non collection? | ||||||||
| Rob R |
Good question, if anyone can answer it, I'd be very interested to know... | ||||||||
| Nick |
Neutral, and explain why. |
||||||||
| RichardW |
Hard one that. Most collect only ones specify a time they have to be picked up by. Is it still a valid ebay id? see if they are still buying & not collecting other stuff. I have a few things I could sell them & then keep myself 
Justme justme |
||||||||
| Chez |
Someone did that to me with one of my multitude of rayburns. They did an instant payment and I never heard from them again. I sent them five messages via ebay over the course of three weeks and then refunded them their money and relisted it. I left them neg. |
||||||||
| Soapnutter |
And now you can't neutral or neg them any more, and by the theme recurring here you *should* have given them positive feedback or none as soon as they paid - even though it's clearly not appropriate. | ||||||||
| RichardW |
So in that case then do the sellers have to wait for the complete warranty to end before giving feed back? Well they did pay you chose to refund it. Did they ever get back to you? But I get your point. I dont think they shoudl be blocked persay from giving truthfull feed back just that some were abusing the system with threats.
Justme |
||||||||
| cinders |
So whats the point in sellers giving positive feedback ebay might aswell do it automatically for you 
|
||||||||
| Pilsbury |
next time I look at a buyers feedback to make sure they are trustworthy and honest I will make sure they have 100% possative.......... oh yes that will be everyone as sellers cant leave neg | ||||||||
| RichardW |
The thing is a buyer only needs 5-10 good feed backs to be allowed to bid on all items. If theybget to many bad ones they will move on to a new id. Sellers cant afford to loose all the good will good name ect that they take ages to build up.
In light of that do we need feed back for buyers at all? Do shops vet customers before they will sell to them? Is a trader being messed about limited to online sales? Traders choose to make their living online selling, they know its full of hazzards but still do so. I understand for private / small time sellers its a bit diff but most problems seem to be from bigger sellers. Justme |
||||||||
| cinders |
I may consider taking my business else where.Like you say Justme If you sell private on line do you get the same hassle?
I'm a good seller.Always replace a lost item or refund if necessary(and i've no idea if that person is being truthful)but i know i'm going to be refunded by the royal mail. Do buyers who buy from catalogue companies give them a hard time? no they just return the item if they don't like it Same with my website.Someone purchased something, didn't like it, returned it, no problem |
||||||||
| Rob R |
Good point. As a seller & buyer I think this change would tend to make me use ebay less, if there are significantly more people like me out there I guess ebay will see it in their figures. |
||||||||
| lottie |
I'm a "good" seller as well as a buyer and although not perfect I think it's better-- less open to abuse---time will tell. | ||||||||
| Pilsbury |
Ok ongoing saga, I sent someone something they bought from me on ebay, they bought it sunday night , i posted it on monday then got an Email from them on wednesday saying where was it and they hadn't recieved it, I replied the same day I had posted it and it should be there, then this thread came up and listening I decided to be rash and leave feedback for all the people I needed to before they left for me, including htis one.
It still wanst there friday so on monday again I posted it special delivery to be sure it got there, so its cost me £27 so far for £9.99 from the buyer. I email them asking to confirm it was recieved, they emailed me wednesday saying they got it but it wasn't quite up to their expectations although it matched the discription, I told them to return it and I would refund them, this morning I got a message saying they realise it probably wasnt my fault but they would be quite happy for me to send them a 3rd item and it really wasn't worth returning a sub standard Itme to me surley, so if i could just spend another £15 for another item and postage they would probably become a good customer 
I have told them I will send them a pre paid envolope to return the Item and I will refund them but I am giong away for a week and wont be able to do it untill after that. Now im shre they will leave neg feeback that i dont deserve and they know I cant cdo anythnig to warn other people about them on their profile as I cant leave neg feedback
|
||||||||
| RichardW |
A short term option would be to leave feed back but in the message put what they did so people can read it & also use the respond option to add it to the feed back they leave you. You can also contest the feed back they leave if needed.
Do sellers actualy check the feed back on buyers? I know you can block non payers & those with low or neg total feed back but do you as a seller (trader) turn sales away if they have 95%? As a trader selling you have to deal with the public if you want to sell. Buyers control who they buy from so you need feed back on sellers. Do sellers control who they sell too? If not then feed back on buyers is pointless. Justme |
||||||||
| marigold |
As a buyer I don't expect sellers to have 100% positive feedback, especially if they are traders rather than private sellers. You
are bound to get the occasional arsey buyer, so if a trader has 100s of positives and a couple of negs (with reasonable seller responses) I'm happy to buy from them. However, as I am just venturing into selling and my first winning bidder was a non-payer (now struck off), I'm not happy about not being able to leave negative feedback for a buyer if they deserve it. |
||||||||
| Rob R |
No it's not pointless, I do have buyer controls into the listings but after that if a buyer complains that they have not received an item it can be helpful by reading their feedback to know wether it is genuine or not, as Pilsbury says, you could end up sending stock worth three times the selling price, and having to pay the postage, when the buyer at the other end could possibly be collecting them & claiming otherwise. In that way, two-way feedback helps. |
||||||||
| RichardW |
In a word (ok two)
Recorded delivery or signed for delivery Also if valuable use insurance. If your prices cant cover it then you are not charging enough. Raise the prices but put in the advert that the delivery is insured & lost parcels will be replaced to justify the rise. they cant say it dint arrive then. Yes its costs more (60p?) but worth every penny. Once the cost gets to about £9 at the post office use a courier again with signitures. No payers get struck off fairly quickly. If no one will sell to people with nill feed back then no one will sell stuff eventualy (no new blood). Justme |
||||||||
| Pilsbury |
I did check his feedback before selling and it was posative although low(10) I am changing my listings and uping the postage cost to cover recorded delivery from now on and no one will have a chioce from me.I cant leave feedback for him with a note in it explaining as I took your advice and left feedback once he had paid me as your argument that all that was to be expected of a buyer was to pay on time was quite compelling so I have lost the opotunity to leave more honest feedback for him.
I will reply to his feedback to me if I get the oppotunity but it still irks me as this is going to seriously going to affect my feedback as I have only been selling for a month or so so i will end up with 90% if i get neg. |
||||||||
| RichardW |
Appeal if he does. 1 feed back on 10 makes a huge % change but once you get going it wont even register.
If he leaves feed back then respond to it so your cuctomers can see what happened. If he does not then no problem. Put some cheap items up for sale to increase your feed back quickly. People wont buy expensive items from low rated new traders unless they are obviously well established real world shops. Start small / cheap & work up. Justme |
||||||||
| Chez |
If you go in to your feedback forum and click on the link at the top that says 'reply to feedback received or follow up on feedback', you can add to the feedback comment you left him, without having to wait for him to reply to you. It does suck .
|