Eeek! I've got a swarm....

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shadiya	Eeek! I've got a swarm.... It flew by me while I was planting out some beans and is now dangling from a branch in the orchard - it's a sign they want to live here I reckon Only problem is I don't have a hive, as already scored a swarm earlier in the year. So have made frantic call to ex hubby who is now attempting to knock up a top bar hive of some description tonight but I'm concerned that we won't be able to treat the wood. When I got my other swarm, the people that gave it to me kept it for a couple of days as I wasn't ready but I can't remember what they said they did and have utterly moronically failed to keep their number, though I did write their names in the phone book I wonder about myself sometimes, I really do.... Anyway, any words of wisdom from more experienced bee keepers? Any suggestions of what I could try or should I just leave well alone, and accept the fact that the hive won't last too long out in the open?
Rosemary Judy	Call your local beekeepers, ours have a website that lists phone numbers for who to contact for swarm advice
joanne	Just find a cardboard box, knock the bee's into the box, turn it upside down on the floor and wedge it so that the remaining bees can find their way in Then you can wrap them in a sheet and keep them until the top bar hive is ready as long as it's only going to be a day or so
shadiya	Thanks Joanne. I've got an old tea chest that I might use as a temporary home. Any thoughts on making a hive with plywood? Am concerned about possible off gassing.
Tavascarow	Wish I'd logged in sooner. As Joanne says but I would be wary as a beginner without a veil. This video might be of use. Catching a swarm Good luck, I hope you catch them.
Tavascarow	Thanks Joanne. I've got an old tea chest that I might use as a temporary home. Any thoughts on making a hive with plywood? Am concerned about possible off gassing. Also is 5mm mesh ok for the hive floor?

5mm is a little large, from memory I think the ideal is 8 holes per inch which is nearer 3mm.
If you can get your ex to make the bars as per plan any container will do with the bars over the top for the bees to cluster on.
When the hive is built you can transfer them over on the bars.
There's a video to show you that as well somewhere when I find the link.
.

Tavascarow

Can't find the link now but I can track it down later.

Smile

shadiya

Hi Tav

I've been on the Biobees forum and 5mm is too big but am going to put them in a box for tonight and worry about moving them to a hive later. They are hanging perfectly, just right for a beginner Very Happy

so I'm not too worried about moving them as I helped collect a swarm last year but then it swarmed off from here. I will be wearing my beesuit as am a total wuss but won't be using my smoker as don't think there should be any need. My plan is to cut the branch off and lower it into the box and then bung the bars on top, roof, call it a box of bees!

I'm so excited! I've now got two lots of bees! Well, assuming the move goes well that is. Don't worry about the film link, I shall report back later Very Happy

Tavascarow

shadiya

Bees went in no trouble and are now happily ensconced in a tea chest. The new hive is almost done, just need to get some mesh for the bottom and we'll be away.

Very Happy

Tavascarow

Glad you caught them OK, hope they stay put.
On my two top bar hives I've used windbreak mesh from the garden centre.
Should last a few years & was cheap.
IIRC I bought enough for six hives for under a tenner.
With regards to your question last night about ply.
It wouldn't be my first choice, but I know those that use ply without any problems.
The bees will in time varnish the inside anyway with propolis.
When you want to transfer them to the hive the easiest way is to put a bar under each end of the top bars, & lift the whole lot out in one go.

shadiya

Well, after a quick look at the biobees website I've found and ordered some stainless steel mesh which will hopefully not only last forever but will also be badger proof. Not that we have badgers in the small orchard but who knows what pesky wildlife will do next, buggers!

I'll let you know how I get on with the move, thanks for the tip. Are you going to the natural beekeeping conference in August? I'm dithering but may go as it looks interesting. Only concern is that it might be a bit over my head, what with being a beginner and all....

Tavascarow

No I wont be going.
No money, to far to travel & no one to look after my dogs & livestock.
Don't worry about it being over your head.
From reports I've read about last years event it was very much tailored towards the beginner, & many new beekeepers went.
I don't know if there is a local natural beekeeping group in your area but might be worth looking through the posts in the local groups section of the natural beekeeping forum to network with other like minds or looking through the members list for those around Oxford & dropping them a PM.
Just did a quick search & come up with this thread.
If you are anywhere near Gareth (the last poster) he's a very knowledgeable & helpful chap.
I'd be surprised if he's not at the NBK conference, so worth searching him out & introducing yourself IMHO. shadiya

That's a shame, would have been nice to meet you but it is miles away from you and it isn't easy finding reliable farm sitters as I am well aware. I'd spotted Gareth already as being someone clever round these parts so I was planning on contacting him anyway. Might do one of his courses but think he's a bit far for cycling to. We shall see.

Got a bit trapped on the Biobees website, it's got some really interesting info on there, blink and you've lost an hour! Are all your bees in top bar hives or do you mix and match? I've got a friend with a Warre and have been wondering about those.... Mary-Jane

Just find a cardboard box, knock the bee's into the box, turn it upside down on the floor and wedge it so that the remaining bees can find their way in

Then you can wrap them in a sheet and keep them until the top bar hive is ready as long as it's only going to be a day or so

I just learnt all that at the bee-keeping course last weekend Very Happy

sean

I know it in theory too. I'm less sure about my ability to do it in real life. Tavascarow

Are all your bees in top bar hives or do you mix and match? I've got a friend with a Warre and have been wondering about those....
My original bees that I've had for years are still in conventional national & commercial boxes but I'm just using the frame top bars (no sides or bottom bars & strips of foundation for starters.
Managing them on the same principals as Warre.
Not that successfully.
The bees are very happy, but because the boxes are so much larger than Warre boxes, they are in no hurry to move down into new accommodation, so I doubt I will be harvesting any honey from them this year.
Although with the weather we have been having it's no surprise really.
Besides that I have one Kenyan top bar hive finally occupied & doing well & a second waiting for bees.

I'm going to try & build a Warre hive for next season.
I wont bother with viewing windows, but for the beginner I think they are invaluable.
Once you have a few years experience you can tell from the sights, sounds & smells at the entrance what is going on inside, so less important then. joanne

I'd love to know how you go on with a Warre - I really like them and to be honest I would put in observation windows just cos I'm nosy and I like to see what they are doing Smile

I'm still in Nationals but hoping at some point to get my confidence with power tools back and build myself some top bars Cathryn

It was suggested today that I should try a polystyrene hive. I think I might as well (when I can afford it). I have a great deal of respect for the woman who suggested it. The condensation side of it worries me slightly but the weight reduction sounds good for me as well.

I've got to be honest - I have big issues about poly hives, I have a poly nuc and whilst it's been good I can't scorch it and although you can clean it with washing soda and bleach it just feels very unnatural

I don't think the weight reduction is that much either, the weight in a hive tends to come from the combs rather that the boxes - if you are having problems lifting a top bar is a much better option - natural, no lifting and happy bee's IMHO Cathryn

I have a topbar. I'm going to do a lot more reading and consider all options. I would like to have a variety and compare how well each works for the bees. I'm new to this though and I might find that I stick at the one. mochasidamo

I don't think the weight reduction is that much either, the weight in a hive tends to come from the combs rather that the boxes - if you are having problems lifting a top bar is a much better option - natural, no lifting and happy bee's IMHO

Very good point Joanne. Although I use poly apideas and Keilers for queen breeding I only had cedar Commercials and a handful of ancient Nationals (for my ten year old as the bigger frames are still too big for her and the longer lugs safer even with nitrile gloves) and some whitewood tbh until...

...I crossed the divide this year and bought two Commercial polynucs (adapted Langstroths really) for trapouts as I thought they'd be lighter strapped/bracketed to walls etc. They really aren't...the density of the material makes them strong for sure, but heavy. Ought to weigh one against a conventional ply nuc.

We are slowly going out of top bar hives for various reasons (two nucs, two four foot, four three foot) having tried them for three years. Some of the pro arguments don't hold very much water and some of the negatives are really not in the bees' favour IOHO. But the important thing is we have used both so can give viewpoints from experience. And we have seen PC talk and some of his arguments are far from accurate and weighted sadly.

Remembering that bees do not have human emotions and thoughts and treating them sensitively, keeping them warm, dry, healthy and with adequate food and space for their needs is what matters.

So Cathryn, you have a healthy attitude - good luck Wink

joanne

So what are you using then rather than top bars? Tavascarow

We are slowly going out of top bar hives for various reasons (two nucs, two four foot, four three foot) having tried them for three years. Some of the pro arguments don't hold very much water and some of the negatives are really not in the bees' favour IOHO. But the important thing is we have used both so can give viewpoints from experience. And we have seen PC talk and some of his arguments are far from accurate and weighted sadly.
Would you care to elaborate on why you feel that way?
I don't disagree that with all systems there are failings, including conventional framed hives but would like to hear your opinions.
I'm one of those people who consider a hive is just a weather proof box & it's how it's managed that's important.

Quote:

Remembering that bees do not have human emotions and thoughts and treating them sensitively, keeping them warm, dry, healthy and with adequate food and space for their needs is what matters.

Aims that IMHO are just as achievable using natural methods & top bar hives, although probably because the bees are doing their thing more naturally, requires a more intuitive approach & less by the book which doesn't suit everyone. Cathryn

One problem I have with the design of my top bar and it is a design problem of mine rather than anything else, is that the roof I have made is too large and heavy for me. I cannot however think of a different roof at the moment. The bars are not attached or dropped in as they are in conventional hives so it could just take me being clumsy or a gust of wind and I could knock quite a few bars of comb completely out of the hive. If I build another one I will change the roof and I will also somehow drop the bars below the top level so that they rest securely on a lip as they do in standard hives. I haven't searched on the biobees site yet if others have had similar problems. (It's a great site by the way whatever kind of bee keeper you are).

On a plus note, I checked them briefly today, a quick look and they do not appear to have cross combed at all. On a negative, they had finished all the syrup and I gave them more. The weather is impossible. Lots and lots of flowers all around but rain storms and wind preventing the bees getting out much. Tavascarow

Mine have still got the old sheet of galvanised steel & a couple of concrete blocks for a roof. Embarassed

You are not the first person to have this problem.
Some people hinge their lids at the back so it's easier to lift. Cathryn

I think the sheets and brick would be a safer option. Smile

Hinging occurred to me but was completely beyond my technical ability and beyond my ability to explain it to my partner when we were putting it together.

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