Ixy
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evading university fees - likely?I did a year full time at a uni i guess I won't name: it was awful. Seriously badly organised; i felt like because I didn't live onsite I was swept under the rug. I went to extraordinary lengths to attend, that everyone said I was mad to do, only to get constant lesson cancellations with no warning, timetable muckups, you name it. something like 17 lessons cancelled in 3 weeks. people said I should try getting a refund.
I tried doing a poultry scholarship I'd seen posters for - it relied on a signature and an inspection of your project by a tutor. The two tutors whose responsibility it was offered NO help, they fobbed me off, passed the buck between themselves. one even told me he didnt really know about poultry welfare. the other then told me that guy had WRITTEN A BOOK on the subject.    anyway, they acted evasive til the deadline had passed and all my prep work on it went down the tube 
I took myself off to the uni farm to learn stuff and while there, the ag tutors poached me off that course by telling me their course was way more appropriate - hands on, practical help in getting a job in farming. work while you learn, learn as you work. So at the end of that year I transferred to the part time ag course.
The tutors were much more helpful, but the course wasnt what they had sold it to me as by a long shot! we never once did a practical with livestock, the whole thing was crop science. I enjoyed the really complex lectures about the economy and how the exchange rate affects farming etc but we couldnt get away from the fact that it was waaaay above my level and not what I was aiming at! I got MYSELF that job in farming, and they didn't seem interested in my job at all, never mind 'helping me learn' or whatever it was they had promised through it. The only time it came up was in a stupid 200 word 'assignment' asking how I learnt at work and how I could improve. I felt I was already learning the maximum I could and could not think of a way to improve, all was going swimmingly. I got marked down for that. WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE REAL WORLD?! I'm not going to invent problems in my life to gain marks!
so I left not half way through. But now they are chasing me for over £1000 of course fees! I have just replied to the email threatening to refer the matter to their solicitors. It started well, but then descended into a diatribe of blame  and ended by me spelling out everything I own and they are welcome to try and squeeze £1000 out of it if they wish. Said the case was worthy of trading standards.
How much are they likely to press the issue? at the time I kept my mouth shut - believe it or not, I don't like trouble and HATED complaining. My family urged me to, and I just think it got me a bad name. certainly nothing came of it. I was happy to just write off the money for the fulltime year - I'll pay it off with the rest of my student debt. But wanted £1000+ NOW is insane, I can't do it and don't feel I should. They used me like a pawn.
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Chez
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Sounds awful and I don't know - but just wanted to say what nobbers they sound.
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sean
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I doubt that you'll avoid them completely. But an offer of 5quid/month or similar would probably shut them up.
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Jamanda
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I guess the first place to start is CAB. What a mess
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Penny
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What Chex said, I'd personally do as you have done and dare them to come after me. Don't let the system catch you!!! Nobbers
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Hairyloon
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Write back and tell them that you hold them in breach of contract.
In exchange for the fees, they are supposed to provide a professionally run course, which they failed to do.
It is not clear if you have paid some of the fees or not. If you have, tell them you want this refunded, and (if you have the bottle)say you want to be reimbursed for your costs arising from attending the course that they failed to deliver.
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stumbling goat
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did you pay for any of the courses by credit card, and if you did was it over £100?
ub
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Ixy
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Sorry yes, the first full time year was paid for by the student loans company, so that's added to what I owe and I'll pay that back when the time comes. i wrote that off, it wasn't worth the hassle. The second part time year there was no funding for so it would have come directly from my pocket - I held off coughing up because it didn't feel right so I've paid nothing for it.
I have 'the bottle' to do anything, but I'm aware that here, it is simply my word against theirs, there's nothing in writing and all the appropriate emails I DID keep, but they have scrubbed my uni email account so they're gone now too. So how on earth could I prove breach of contract?
I'm really hoping they will just back down. I think my next step would be threatening to tell anyone and everyone appropriate about it and hoping some bad publicity will make them back off.
if not I would go down the £5 a month route if they were willing, it's worth a fiver a month just to stop any hassle  even if they dont deserve it....
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Hairyloon
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| Ixy wrote: | | I have 'the bottle' to do anything, but I'm aware that here, it is simply my word against theirs, there's nothing in writing and all the appropriate emails I DID keep, but they have scrubbed my uni email account so they're gone now too. So how on earth could I prove breach of contract? |
Have they scrubbed them? Or just disabled your account.
See if you can have a friendly chat with someone in IT, maybe say there's love letters you want to retrieve. 
| Quote: | | I'm really hoping they will just back down. I think my next step would be threatening to tell anyone and everyone appropriate about it and hoping some bad publicity will make them back off. |
There are two basic choices: fight the case in court or don't fight the case in court.
I doubt they've got the bottle to go to court; if you win then it opens the door for all the other dissatisfied students.
You would of course have to answer the very valid point that: "We've has <x> thousand other students this year, none of them have complained"
The usual tactic of most creditor is to just threaten and harrass in the hope the debtor will pay. Then they sell the debt to a collection agency who do the same.
Lay it on the table that you dispute the debt and why. Tell them you are prepared to go to court to resolve the matter. If they are as well then they should get on with it and if they are not then further correspondence may be considered as harassment.
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Ixy
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oo further correpondance considered as harassment, I like that - thanks. I'm waiting for their reply to my email as we speak....although I'm not holding my breath I expect it will have set them all off flapping for a while 
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Frewen Feltmaker
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I would get myself to the CAB or other legally helpful bods - I remember hearing something along similar lines on one of the Radio 4 moneybox programmes. The upshot being (IIRC) that they can claim against you for fees where you have terminated the course without waiting for you to hit any earnings thresholds and will seek to do so.
Of course that doesn't mean that you don't have some breach of contract as you outline in your initial post - so sorry that's not more helpful but that's all I can remember
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Hairyloon
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| Frewen wrote: | | I would get myself to the CAB or other legally helpful bods |
You saying my comments aren't helpful?
Fair point.
if you ever take any advice from me, remember where you got it: off some fat hairy ape you found on t'internet.
Be advised, if they do take you to court, it could affect your credit rating.
Make sure you have a (fairly clean) credit card before you go.
Credit is bad for the soul and the environment anyway.
Incidentally, I am not sure about the legal status of emails. Might be better to send them by letter or by fax.
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Ixy
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my credit file is impeccable, I'm up to date with all payments for everything and have always avoided borrowing at all costs - no credit cards, ever, store cards etc. 
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Hairyloon
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| Ixy wrote: | | my credit file is impeccable, I'm up to date with all payments for everything and have always avoided borrowing at all costs - no credit cards, ever, store cards etc. |
Your credit rating probably isn't that good then. They like to see you borrowing (and paying it back).
Seriously, I do suggest you get a credit card before you go to court. You don't have to use it, but if you've got one and the court goes against you, then you can use it to rebuild your credit rating. One day you probably will want a mortgage.
Of course taking financial advice off me is a bit like making Tony Blaire a peace envoy to the middle east, but at least I am not deliberately telling you lies about it.
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Frewen Feltmaker
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| Hairyloon wrote: | | Frewen wrote: | | I would get myself to the CAB or other legally helpful bods |
You saying my comments aren't helpful?
Fair point.
if you ever take any advice from me, remember where you got it: off some fat hairy ape you found on t'internet. |
My apologies
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Ixy
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| Hairyloon wrote: | | Ixy wrote: | | my credit file is impeccable, I'm up to date with all payments for everything and have always avoided borrowing at all costs - no credit cards, ever, store cards etc. |
Your credit rating probably isn't that good then. They like to see you borrowing (and paying it back).
Seriously, I do suggest you get a credit card before you go to court. You don't have to use it, but if you've got one and the court goes against you, then you can use it to rebuild your credit rating. One day you probably will want a mortgage.
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 credit cards scare me....
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Chez
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Credit cards are the way of the devil. Don't do it 
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Ixy
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I'm off to do a purification ritual right now...that was a close one
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Hairyloon
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| Frewen wrote: | | My apologies |
Not needed, but thankyou anyway.
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marigold
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| Ixy wrote: | | Hairyloon wrote: | | Ixy wrote: | | my credit file is impeccable, I'm up to date with all payments for everything and have always avoided borrowing at all costs - no credit cards, ever, store cards etc. |
Your credit rating probably isn't that good then. They like to see you borrowing (and paying it back).
Seriously, I do suggest you get a credit card before you go to court. You don't have to use it, but if you've got one and the court goes against you, then you can use it to rebuild your credit rating. One day you probably will want a mortgage.
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credit cards scare me.... |
Credit cards are like chainsaws - used sensibly they are good tools, used stupidly they can cost you an arm and a leg... 
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Rob R
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Unfortunately you don't need to be qualified to use a credit card.
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Treacodactyl
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You don't need to be qualified to buy and use a chainsaw.
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john of wessex
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If you havnt talked to them already what about the Students Union - either the College or National? There may be other cases involving the college.
Secondly -and I have no idea what the answer is although thgere are some solicitors on this site, could The Student Loans co be jointly & severally liable in the way that Credit Card Companies are under the Consumer Credit Act.
I must admit many years ago I went to The Poly of the Back & Beyond for a course that was basically outdoor relief for unemployable technical college lecturers, but, of course in those days there were grants!
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Rob R
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That's another loophole that needs tightening up.
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marigold
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| Rob R wrote: | | That's another loophole that needs tightening up. |
You want the nanny state to be even more nannyish?
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Rob R
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| marigold wrote: | | Rob R wrote: | | That's another loophole that needs tightening up. |
You want the nanny state to be even more nannyish? |
OK, loosening up then
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Ixy
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STILL waiting for a reply?
think they just don't know WHAT to think
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12Bore
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Now that Unis charge for their courses, they are subject to contract law, ie they describe a course and if they fail to deliver the course as described in the prospectus then they are in breach. Remember they do not sell you a degree, they sell you the course. This is the legal advice we had recently, as my son's 3rd year should have been spent studying in a US university, which we were told was all arranged. He went back in Jan to be called to a course meeting. They were then told that contrary to what they, and the tutors, had been told for 2 years that they only had a choice of 2 US unis. Son spent days trawling web and contacting the 2, reluctantly chose the better of the 2 and informed the Uni. Next week told that all places at the Uni were allocated to another course last October!! and that he had to go to Illinois or nowhere, oh yes he was also give 3 weeks to raise a £15,000 CASH bond!! Very upset son had to change courses, bearing in mind he's wanted to be a Geologist since he was 5 and this is the best course in the UK at the Uni with the best reputation in the UK and he's apparently in the top 5% according to his first and second year results.. He's now part way through the complaints procedure with my solicitor standing by, apparantly Unis are wetting themselves for the first suit to be brought for breach of contract...........we'll see, but they ain't gonna get away with it!
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Frewen Feltmaker
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I threatened my university with legal action after they failed during one module to provide a proper teaching.
If I hadn't I wouldn't have achieved my first class (the entire module was rescheduled and all previous marks disregarded).
I was prepared to put in the work, and so should they have. 
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Ixy
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| 12Bore wrote: | | and that he had to go to Illinois or nowhere, oh yes he was also give 3 weeks to raise a £15,000 CASH bond!! |
harsh!?
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beean
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What have you in writing outlining the course - there must be a syllabus, reading lists, details of work palcements, and the like, either in the prospectus or elsewhere? If the course didn't match up with that to a material extent then you should be OK. You would surely have to be able to show that the content of the course was not as described. Good luck with it.
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