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Rob R

Give young land to build their own homes

Give young land to build their own homes, says planning minister
Hairyloon

Seems like a basically good idea, but I'm sure the government will find a way to turn it over and make it into a bad one...
oldish chris

a Tory realises that there is a problem! that's the first step. However, isn't Nick Boles on the extreme left of the party (i.e. almost normal) and will be treated as seriously as say, Tony Benn?
Mistress Rose

The land is of course an expensive part of the price of a house, but wouldn't it be far better to ensure that all future development was of 'affordable' or rent/sale places so that young people could get on the property ladder if they want to? We keep getting 'executive' or 'stunning' developments round here, very few of which are affordable by youngsters.

Perhaps someone who has had to take out a student loan can tell me. If you go for a mortgage, is the student loan taken into account, giving you less chance of the mortgage?
Rob R

The land is of course an expensive part of the price of a house, but wouldn't it be far better to ensure that all future development was of 'affordable' or rent/sale places so that young people could get on the property ladder if they want to? We keep getting 'executive' or 'stunning' developments round here, very few of which are affordable by youngsters.

Perhaps someone who has had to take out a student loan can tell me. If you go for a mortgage, is the student loan taken into account, giving you less chance of the mortgage?


What's more, a couple of years after being built they start falling apart... I think giving away land is the wrong way to go about it, but at least the issue is being raised, rather than ignored as it has been for some time now.

We've had some 'affordable' homes built a couple of villages away - they look like council houses, only smaller, and I'll be interested to see whether they turn out to be in any way 'affordable'. Some tweaking of the planning system would be a better way to make self-building more affordable, but there's so much opposition that I don't see it being done in the short term.
Nick

The latest ones, no, because you just pay them back as tax when you're earning enough. Other type, yes, they count as part of your debt, afaik.
oldish chris

Worth remembering, with a typical speculative urban "new build" the breakdown of the asking price is 30% cost of land, 30% cost of construction, 30% profit.

If a "not for profit" organisation could build on land that was not designated "development land" then a house could built at around half the normal price.

As we saw with the "right to buy" legislation, after a few years, the property is sold on to a "buy to let" investor, who then charges the maximum rent that the market allows, which in turn means that the benefits bill goes sky high.

Therefore such a house would have to have loads of conditions attached to the sale, similar to houses built for agricultural workers.

Personally, I'd re-invent council housing.
Hairyloon

What's more, a couple of years after being built they start falling apart...

What is the basis of that assertion?
I've done some building work, and none of it is difficult. The skill of a builder is in knowing how many corners you can cut, and how much of a slap-dash job you can get away with doing.
I mean no disrespect to builders there: there is nothing wrong with cutting corners if it provides an acceptable short-cut. A builder knows if the short-cut is acceptable where a self-builder may not, and the short cuts may make the difference between profit and loss, which isn't a self-builder's primary concern.
Rob R

What's more, a couple of years after being built they start falling apart...
What is the basis of that assertion?
I've done some building work, and none of it is difficult. The skill of a builder is in knowing how many corners you can cut, and how much of a slap-dash job you can get away with doing.
I mean no disrespect to builders there: there is nothing wrong with cutting corners if it provides an acceptable short-cut. A builder knows if the short-cut is acceptable where a self-builder may not, and the short cuts may make the difference between profit and loss, which isn't a self-builder's primary concern.

Nat was once a building manager for some new build appartments, and then it came up again on George Clark's Great British Property Scandal programme.
Hairyloon

What's more, a couple of years after being built they start falling apart...
What is the basis of that assertion?
I've done some building work, and none of it is difficult. The skill of a builder is in knowing how many corners you can cut, and how much of a slap-dash job you can get away with doing.
I mean no disrespect to builders there: there is nothing wrong with cutting corners if it provides an acceptable short-cut. A builder knows if the short-cut is acceptable where a self-builder may not, and the short cuts may make the difference between profit and loss, which isn't a self-builder's primary concern.

Nat was once a building manager for some new build appartments, and then it came up again on George Clark's Great British Property Scandal programme.
Sorry, I think I misunderstood your point: I thought you meant the self-built houses would fall down, not the "professionally" (ahem) built affordable ones...
oldish chris

I've seen two, maybe three, television programmes which featured "self-build" projects. Apart from the costs (low) and the architecture (interesting) was the effect it had on the builders both individually (made then more skillful and self-confident) and collectively ( real sense of community).

I'm in favour.

But when it comes to housing costs and shortages there are a few elephants in the room: one is the bias of money lenders towards buy-to-let landlords and the favourable tax regime of unearned income versus wages, the other is the under-occupation of many houses occupied by wrinklies (such as me).
Mistress Rose

There is always the under occupation question, but in some areas the elephant is the number of people who have a 'country cottage' for use at weekends and holidays. We didn't realise how many there were round here until a sudden snow fall left them stuck in their holiday homes after Christmas a few years ago. They all wanted a log delivery, but we were unable to oblige. The same snow that was keeping them in was keeping us out of their village, and there is a lovely steep hill with lots of bends on the way. Very Happy

The effect on some people of self build can be bad for their health and their marriage if they push it too hard. A friends father apparently aged 10 years as he was the supervisor of a self build group.
Nick

: one is the bias of money lenders towards buy-to-let landlords and the favourable tax regime of unearned income versus wages, the other is the under-occupation of many houses occupied by wrinklies (such as me).



What's the bias? You pay a higher interest rate for a btl mortgage, and don't you pay the same tax on unearned income as wages?
onemanband

I can't find anymore details other than what's in the news stories so .....
Are they really going to give land away ? Land that is easy worth 50k a plot. It's not like there's a shortage of people willing to buy it and build on it. How are they going to assess who can have free land ? And giving away land won't actually mean theres more houses than if the land was sold and raised revenue.
Maybe it could be a scheme where land is 'loaned' and then paid back when/if the house is sold. That would give people a foot on the ladder.

I think the elephant in the room is a projected net population growth of 10mill over next 25 years (that's 400 000 per year) and a house building rate of about 100 000 per year.
Nick

The actual house need not cost much.

Apologies for linking to a pro nazi bit of toilet roll.
oldish chris

: one is the bias of money lenders towards buy-to-let landlords and the favourable tax regime of unearned income versus wages, the other is the under-occupation of many houses occupied by wrinklies (such as me).



What's the bias? You pay a higher interest rate for a btl mortgage, and don't you pay the same tax on unearned income as wages? I thought that dividends were taxed lower than income. (10% versus 20% for paupers like me, 37.5% versus 45% for ex-members of the Bullingdon Club)

The bias in mortgages is that paupers like me need to find a 90 or 95% mortgage, ex-members of the Bullingdon Club get a 50% loan against their home and use that to fund the BTL.
Nick

Ah. Not all btl properties are owned by ex bullingdon club members. That's where the confusion comes from. Rental income attracts regular income tax.

To be fair, you can deduct the cost of a mortgage from your tax bill, tho.
RichardW



To be fair, you can deduct the cost of a mortgage from your tax bill, tho.

I think its just the interest bit you can do that for not the repayment part.
Pilsbury



To be fair, you can deduct the cost of a mortgage from your tax bill, tho.

I think its just the interest bit you can do that for not the repayment part.
well yes, thags why you get an interest only morgage and use the extra income to fund another BTL morgage....
Nick

Yes. The COST of the mortgage... Rob R

And giving away land won't actually mean theres more houses than if the land was sold and raised revenue.

No, but they will be lived in.

I think the elephant in the room is a projected net population growth of 10mill over next 25 years (that's 400 000 per year) and a house building rate of about 100 000 per year.

I think the elephant in the room is the 1,000,000 empty homes in the UK, a third of which have been empty for 6 months +.
dpack

maybe the million empty homes at a time when the young cannot afford mortgages or rent is why the 1000 yrs of squatting rights was removed rather quietly

plenty of commercial premises are still available to the adaptable
chickenann

Planners should stop giving permission to vanity projects. Size of new houses should be restricted via the planning process, making them more affordable and ensuring a lower carbon footprint of both the build and of running them. we're not short of 6+ bed houses, we're short of modest family homes and first-time-buyer properties. Rob R

Planners should stop people building extensions - all the small houses round here seem to be extended to make them unaffordable. oldish chris

there's more Heffing Heffalumps in our self-built living room than in Africa!

So, one more won't make much difference: hows about the Government has allowed free market forces to set house prices, but is assiduously making sure that there isn't a free market of supply. So, either dump all planning restrictions or introduce price controls.
Hairyloon

introduce price controls.
Isn't that part of the reasoning behind the benefits cap?
The bottom line for rent is substantially dependant on the amount that someone can claim housing benefit for...
Rob R

Watch out, one of the elephants is escaping! Surprised
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