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cassy

Giving permission to shoot deer

I've been asked if I will allow deer to be shot on my land. I've not met the person in question yet so what questions should I be asking them, please?

I mainly need to know that it will be humanely and safely done. Will membership of the BASC or the local gun club, be indicative of a certain standard or not? Do people usually take up references? Would it be normal to examine his gun license?

I also don't know what's expected of me responsibility and access wise. I've read the BASC permission doc but how long and how frequently should I allow access (realistically)?

This has come about as neighbours are concerned about 3 red deer which appear to have escaped from a local deer farm. If they are on my land, would I be expected to pay to have them shot or would the bloke take the venison as payment? I know people usually pay for shooting rights but I guess this is different as there are only 3 animals, it's more like pest control. What is the deal normally? Gralloching, do I have to dispose of the entrails or are they left for wildlife?

And finally (sorry for all the questions), should I and my neighbours be putting together a deer management plan or is that only done by large estates? The area they seem to be using is around 50 acres. I don't know how many deer are too many, in a given area. I'm willing to tolerate some damage in the name of biodiversity but the neighbours are less keen as the deer are escapees and pretty unafraid of people. What would be the best management of this group which seem to be one hind and two younger animals? They're the only red deer I've seen here and although we've had roe damage to the trees in the past, there don't seem to be that many wild deer in this exact area.

If the potential hunter was someone I knew, I would trust him to manage the deer in a sustainable manner but having not met him yet, I'd like to be better informed.

Thank you.
windyridge

If they are escapees do they still technicaly belong to the owner of the deer farm? Should you and your neighbours contact them first?
Brownbear

Firstly, you don't have to let anyone onto your land unless you are 100% happy about them. You can harbour all the deer you want and it's entirely up to you, so don't let anyone pressure you into anything.

As far as a deer management plan goes, most small landowners either welcome them or take the odd one for food as and when. If you've been planting saplings I suggest a zero-tolerance policy as they will lay them waste in no time.

There is no guarantee of acceptable stalkers - there is something called the DSC or Deer Stalking Certificate, which is a nice little earner for the BASC, is used as an arse-covering exercise by police firearms depts, but is in my opinion not worth the paper it is printed on. In fact, if anyone was bragging of having a DSC I would regard it as a sign of extreme inexperience at best. Membership of BASC, the Countryside Alliance or the National Gamekeeper's Organisation means only that the person has paid their subs, but it does give them 10m public liability insurance, so you should demand proof that they have such cover.

You should not pay for someone to shoot deer on your land unless by a professional deer manager as part of a long-term plan. This is in effect a small cull which treats the deer as a pest, and is hardly an exacting job in so small an area. I'd suggest that you offer to go halves on the venison with the stalker. Deer stalking is a resource so don't go giving it away.

As far as determining who you wish to let on your land with a rifle, there are a fair few idiots out there as well as a lot of good people, so I suggest you talk to the potential stalker - making it very clear in advance that you are by no means decided and that it is up to him to get you to agree to both the cull and to him doing it - and see what you think of him. Ask for proof of insurance, ask to see his Firearms Certificate (FAC). Ask for references from other landowners for whom he has stalked.
cassy

If they are escapees do they still technicaly belong to the owner of the deer farm? Should you and your neighbours contact them first?


I'm basing the assumption on the fact that they don't seem scared of people. Our neighbour has lived in the areas a lot longer than us and is basing it on the fact that the ex-owners of the deer farm had a bad reputation for fence up-keep.

I could be wrong, but I imagine the response from the deer farm would be "Prove it".
Brownbear

If they are escapees do they still technicaly belong to the owner of the deer farm?


No. Deer are classed as wild animals and belong to the landowner on whose land they are at any one time.
misty07

3 deer on 50 acres aint alot is it? what sex are they? could you not just leave them be for a few seasons let them maybe find a stag breed then have more quarry to shoot and part of deal of shooting on your land to keep you in supplie of venison windyridge

I am afraid that I am firmly in the dont shoot camp Wraps flameproof flak jacket tightly round me Very Happy Brownbear

3 deer on 50 acres aint alot is it?

Yes, it is, if they're reds the damage they do to young woodland is quite remarkable.
Brownbear

I am afraid that I am firmly in the dont shoot camp. Wraps flameproof flak jacket tightly round me:D

That is the right of the landowner. Unless harbouring a reservoir of diseased or destructive animals, or deliberately attracting animals to the area where they affect other landowners, then that right should be respected.

There are some trigger-happy knobs out there who would lay waste the entire land if left to it. Species management is about selective killing, not the bringing-about of a holocaust.
windyridge

*withdraws from discussion* I am a big softee Sad Brownbear

*withdraws from discussion* I am a big softee Sad

Your point of view is as good as the next fellow's. If you want deer on your land, then have deer on your land.
Brownbear

One more thing to the OP - agree on cull numbers, not access times. Deer behaviour varies so it may take a while and a few visits for the stalker to get the gen on where and when to shoot.

If you give permission to take two deer, you have the first carcass, let the stalker take the second (to make sure he comes back - people can be keener to get permission than to actually do the stalking), access then ends until further permission from you is given.
windyridge

*withdraws from discussion* I am a big softee Sad

Your point of view is as good as the next fellow's. If you want deer on your land, then have deer on your land.

Very Happy
cassy

Thanks Brownbear, that's a lot of helpful advice.

It's given me a better idea now of what to expect when I speak to him and how to judge what he says.
Brownbear

Thanks Brownbear, that's a lot of helpful advice.

It's given me a better idea now of what to expect when I speak to him and how to judge what he says.

You're welcome.

If you don't like the cut of his jib but still want the cull done, you'll soon find another to do it. Remember it's your land and your deer, and your ears that bullets would be flying around if the fellow is a yahoo.
Tavascarow

I'm an ignoramous but something BB probably should have said on the FAC is make sure they are licensed & will be using the right calibre of amunition for large quarry.
You don't want some one shooting at red deer with a .22.
Sure BB will fill in the gaps.
Brownbear

Yeah, and while your at it make sure he isn't going to shoot them with a teaspoon, a haddock or a dead rat. cassy

*withdraws from discussion* I am a big softee Sad
I find it difficult too; there's got to be a balance I think, between the needs of people and the needs of the animals who use the land. The 'kill em all' approach seems to be easier for some people than getting and maintaining a balance.

I knew a wonderful old bloke once, had been shooting deer for years. He culled deer in order to keep the population healthy on the feed they had. If he was here I would have no qualms about handing over the management decisions to him as he would get that balance right.

Thanks for taking the time to add your view Very Happy .
Brownbear

I have on occasion refused to work for landowners who wanted me to institute a bloodbath of wildlife. You should never take life without good cause. cassy

I have on occasion refused to work for landowners who wanted me to institute a bloodbath of wildlife. You should never take life without good cause.
I'm hoping this bloke has the same attitude and if not that we find one who does.
Hots

We have a chap who shoots our roe deer.

He has many years experience, he spends a long time making sure that he gets a clear shot, he uses the right sort of gun (don't ask what calibre it is, I can't remember, but it is definitely a deershooter), he also ensures that if the bullet goes through the deer it is not going to carry on and hit something behind the beast. This is an issue here as the land is flat.
He is aware of the breeding seasons of each type of deer, therefore he knows when and what he should or shouldn't be shooting.
He guts the deer as soon as he has shot them, he brings me the warm liver for my menfolk.
He takes the carcases away and a few weeks later he returns with the venison perfectly butchered and packaged up for us.
For each 3 deer he shoots we get one back, freezer ready.
We are a little spoilt.
Oh, and he's a really nice bloke.
SheepShed

he brings me the warm liver for my menfolk
My imagination is running wild at the mental picture that conjures up Smile
dpack

what a splendid thread matt_hooks

As BB says, if for ANY REASON you have reason to doubt the person, then politely decline to give them permission. There are enough good people out there who will happily come and cull the required number that you don't need to take any c##p off anyone. You have a valuable resource, which you owe to yourself to dispose of in the most beneficial manner possible.

If I were nearer I'd offer my services.

As a guide, a red dear sells in the skin to a game dealer at about 1.30 a kg, depending on how well it's shot. Bear that in mind when agreeing who gets to keep what of the meat.

I know some land owners who will happily let you walk off with the entire carcass, but when I stalk I always offer to split the meat half and half with the land owner at least, and that's the meat butchered as they want it, ready to go in the freezer or pot. I take great pride in dealing with the whole process, from shooting right through to cooking (and eating of course!) and anyone who wants to shoot the dear for you should probably be able to say the same.
djoptix

As a guide, a red dear sells at about 1.30 a kg

How much could I get if I shot an old dear...?
RichardW



How much could I get if I shot an old dear...?

With the slack courts about 20 hours community service. So it does not infringe on you rights.
dpack

deer are splendid but can be destructive and tasty if needs be

met one white and 8 brown early one morning ,no violence a pretty time in a sussex field

stalked some reds in a blizzard over 2 miles of mountains and surprised them by saying hello inside the herd when they lay down for a rest ,no violence but the way they jumped up and ran was very funny ,if i had been feeling nasty it could have been done with a blade when i was next to the big lad

i like deer .bbq fillet is very nice

i like deer as critters

mostly as critters

im not sure how ki feels about deer
djoptix

BB, please change your avatar back, the old one was sweet but the new one is just wrong diddly wrong wrong. Brownbear

BB, please change your avatar back, the old one was sweet but the new one is just wrong diddly wrong wrong.

Problem, Dave? You need Cloooothespegs?
dpack

the new one is cute

back to the plot

if they are eating the trees it may work to repel them with scent .human ,lion works .dog

the lion thing comes from napoleon and josephine who dumped for surrey to keep deer off blackheath gardens
.bagged rather than a visit Wink

if it keeps roses and strawberries safe .......
Lorrainelovesplants

I like deer....but wouldnt want them on my land....
If you dont know the person, but he has contacted you through a 3rd person, cant you get some info from them on his 'method/ideology'?
cassy

A quick update -

We've still not had any significant damage here (nearly 2 months later) and so I'm not inclined to take any action.

The person in question didn't get in touch in the end, but I was grateful for the advice I got here at the time, as I felt more confident had they got in touch.

The deer seem more nervous around people now and take themselves off much quicker than they used to. We don't see them as much as we used to, perhaps once a week now.

Red deer are now out of season according to here so that takes any decision out of my hands for a while anyway.

Thanks all!
Treacodactyl

I've got a problem with Roe deer and, from what I've observed, they seem to like browsing on young foliage so the damage tends to occur in spring/early summer. Hopefully you'll still escape the damage but I'd keep a good eye out just in case so you know what might need to be done later in the season.

I've got a few examples of ash trees that have been bonsaied by the deer, the trees are still just a couple of feet high and the trunks about one cm in diameter - their neighbours that escaped the damage are well over 5m tall and their trunks15 - 20cm.
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