| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| JB |
Glyphosate a health hazard?Is it or isn't it?The first two results I get from google both sound well researched and of course come up with completely different results. http://www.pesticide.org/glyphosateroundupnr.html http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Actives/glyphosa.htm |
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| TAVASCAROW |
Interesting reading. | ||||
| Slim |
Even if the official word is that it's not, I'm inclined to avoid it at all costs. We evolved from the same ancestors as the amphibians that they say it messes up.... | ||||
| Rob R |
We have a neighbour who says you can drink the stuff, never got him to put his roundup where his mouth is though... 
I've used a fair bit of the stuff in my time, I now avoid it at all costs. |
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| vanessa |
I only use it where absolutely necessary ... and then "paint" it onto the leaves of the offending plant. | ||||
| cab |
As in handling any chemical, its perfectly safe if handled correctly, i.e. you don't get it on or in you.
I'm happy using it on the plot, most sparingly, and with appropriate care. |
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| Chez |
I have heard an apocryphal story of someone become quite poorly because of skin contact. But I agree with Cab - used properly and appropriately ... | ||||
| Cho-ku-ri |
I have wiped it on Bindweed leaves and 'taken out' a whole Beech plant from a hedge.  I have also been told by a farmer he is convinced that when used as a pre-plough Autumn weed cleen up spray, it reduces/kills earth worms, which is an ecological disaster.
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| Cho-ku-ri |
Did you know that you may not use it in the garden, but you probably consume it on a daily basis. It is used as a pre-harvest decicant to ripen grains quicker so it will be in most non organic breads, and it is used on all Round-Up Ready G.M. crops so it is in every bottle of glucose syrup sweetened fizzy drink. Tests may have been done to see how harmful Glyphospate is on the body, but I doubt many would realsie that the avarage human consumes so much of it on a daily basis nowadays. |
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| cab |
At what concentration is glyphosate actually present in, say, a fizzy drink? |
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| vanessa |
That's worrying. Really worrying. Both the earth-worm thing and the amount that's in stuff we buy. 
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| Jonnyboy |
I use it sparingly. I have to say that I treated a large area of subsoil with it prior to topsoiling, stupidly without any mask, and felt sick as a dog for several hours afterwards. 
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| Rob R |
Sorry, I should have added something constructive:
To ensure there is no hazard to your health whilst handling the product you should wear: - rubber or other easily washable impermeable boots - washable or disposable all-in-one coverall - face shield that covers the entire face - stout rubber/easily washable impermeable gloves - proper pesticide approved respirator mask and follow all label instructions carefully. |
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| Cho-ku-ri |
[quote="cab"]
Oh just a tiny bit in the Coke, and a tiny bit in the bread, and a tiny bit in the G.M.fed beef(imported) and a tiny bit from next door's garden, and a tiny bit in the beer. Just a few tiny bits every day.
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| Jonnyboy |
Right, I'm off to hide under the bed and not eat anything again. | ||||
| JB |
Isn't one of the virtues of glyphosate that it breaks down quickly into supposedly harmless products when not in plant material? |
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| Cho-ku-ri |
I think, in soil it has a half life of 100 days so it can't break down into something harmless overnight. |
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| Behemoth |
The Wiki reference is quite interesting. Seems the half lif depend on the soil conditions etc:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup I use it very rarely and sparingly and carefully. I prefer to use a hoe and trowel though, much more satisfying. |
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| JB |
If not always possible if you can't get to the roots. I'll use it but reluctantly and only when clearing sites initially or dealing with weeds where foliage is accessible but not roots. |
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| Behemoth |
Yes, I usually use it on some invasive comfrey that gets its roots 2ft down into the bedrock. Comfrey's great in the right place but this stuff gets every where and bullies the veg out. | ||||
| cab |
Fine advice for spraying, do you believe thats appropriate for applying small amounts either in a watering can or by brush? |
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| cab |
So, what concentration in fizzy drinks, or bread, or beef? 'Tiny bit' isn't a concentration. |
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| Behemoth |
I lean to caution and have gloves and long sleeves in case of spillage by the idiot operator. |
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| Slim |
well that's sort of impossible to measure unless you start on specifics. This farmer may use this amount on this harvest, which will be used in these proportions with other farmers' harvests for this product. A few too many variables. Maybe if we choose one thing and see what research folks can dig up? Like, how often is it used for sugarcane harvest, and at what rate do they use it, and how much is left as a residual post processsing. |
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| cab |
I also wear gloves and boots, but where the risk of creating an aerosol is low I don't wear face protection. Although I'm very cautious to avoid a windy day! |
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| Rob R |
Even when handling concentrate? You brave man. I'd be more concerned about getting it in the face than I would on my hands. My brother used to be the main spray operator for an arable farm/contractor & found it was increasingly affecting his asthma so he was wearing the mask more & more, and it's improved greatly since he's stopped handling pesticides though. |
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| cab |
I handle worse things than that every day. Considering the skin permeation properties of the formulation, I don't view the concentrate as THAT big a deal, and I'd be staggered at my own incompetence if I managed to get any on me or create a meaningful aerosol.
I wonder, if it was glyphosate causing that, what formulation was it that you were using? I'll wager that for causing respiratory problems, the surfactants mixed in with it are every bit as bad (if not worse). |
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| Rob R |
I meant face shields (not masks) to protect against splashes, which are more likely when handling/measuring the concentrate.
And I was careful to use the word pesticides in the post, it would be impossible to comment how much was related specifically to a single chemical group. |
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| cab |
They are, but of course part of safe chemical handling of any chemicals is to minimise the risk of such happening as far as possible; call me old fashioned, but I think there is far too much emphasis on wearing face protection these days and far too little on correct handling of substances to minimise the chances of splashing. I blame COSHH and assorted safety assessment forms that encourage people to demonstrate to others how safe they're being without ever having to learn to handle things safely. But thats another discussion 
Indeed. Although I might also add that my suspicion is that very often the generic problems associated with pesticide use can be attributed not to the 'active' ingredient, but to the other components. |
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| Cho-ku-ri |
Roundup is sold to everybody, even although we are told one in four has trouble either reading or counting
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| Rob R |
You're old fashioned 
I think if you're wearing all the other recommended PPE you lose so much of your dexterity & end up being more like to coat yourself in the stuff than if you never bothered with any of it in the first place. And I'd add that most chemicals represent a tiny risk when used properly in ideal conditions, for which they've been tested. The trouble is that we being humans & the weather being the weather, we often find ourselves compromised in some way when using such things practically so the 'safety' of the product is infinitely variable. Most problems associated with chemical use on farms aren't (if you ignore the long term effect on eco-systems of chemical use & monocropping) in the middle of the field on a bright & not too breezy day, but in disposing of the empty containers or cleaning out the sprayer/that leaky nozzle you've caught on a tree etc. |
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| cab |
Most painful accident I've had at work was poking myself in the eye putting on safety glasses. Smarted for days, that did.
It ain't just on a farm where its the unforseen consequences of using a chemical that pose the greatest risk, and thats why I'm always highly dubious of using paperwork as a means to ensure safety. Such papertrails ensure acountability, but I find that they rarely help people acquire the understanding of the dangers that they need to handle real situations well 
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| Treacodactyl |
What about other people who live near people spraying? I notice our council spray weedkiller on roads without any warning or precautions to people, I bet that's glyphosate. When we lived next to an arable field the sprays would often drift into our garden. I know people should follow instructions but many people don't, just look what's happened to the weedkiller that's contaminating manure. Personally I don't use it and, hopefully, never will. |
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| Rob R |
I guess you now fully understand the phrase better than a poke in the eye 
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