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dpack

good news cos they build watersheds

beaver photos included

Laughing

i can think of several places where they would be good river management,increase biodiversity and if they become too numerous to "emigrate"to new places that need them they do make a nice stew and a hat

the ea spend millions of flood management ,these critters work for twigs
Mistress Rose

In the New Forest they have been working for some years to slow down the streams and allow snags, pools and the mires to redevelop, so in some ways, beavers there might also be a good idea. Not sure what the fish stocks are like in the Forest though.

I can see there could be problems if there were young plantations near the river, and that they will have an effect of the fish stocks and possibly fish migration, although I would have thought fish could get over or through the dams.

With proper management I don't see why it shouldn't work.
robkb

I like the arrogance of them being 'permitted' to stay Rolling Eyes
Bodger

If I lived in Ottery St Mary, I'd already be thinking about doing guided beaver tours. The presence of beavers could be a boon to the tourist sector, if its managed sympathetically of course.
sean

They could change its name to Beavery St Mary.
Treacodactyl

I like the arrogance of them being 'permitted' to stay Rolling Eyes


Why do you say that?

There's a system in place if you wish to release animals and for good reason. No one knows where they come and the tape worm they can carry can cause death in various animals such as humans and dogs. They could also carry other diseases such as rabies.

I gather they don't even know yet if they are Eurasian beavers so it's not even confirmed if this is a reintroduction or the introduction of a new species.

They do cause a large amount of damage so if they spread small scale land users particularly will have to either put up with a large loss of trees or fence. Fencing is not ideal as it is not only costly but isn't great for other wildlife and can even lead to deaths.

At the beavers don't seem to be a problem (assuming they're disease free) as they are on a large, traditional estate (the sort many seem to want broken up).

Hopefully common sense will carry on prevailing and sensible action will be taken if they cause too much damage in future. There will also need to be action to ensure a healthy population as currently they are just going to inbreed.
robkb

Thanks for that.
Mistress Rose

Good post Treacodactyl. I agree that if the beavers are found to be Eurasian and disease and parasite free they may be an asset, but only if they are kept under control in numbers and monitored to make sure they are keeping healthy.

Introduced species, like grey squirrels for instance, can completely destroy native species like the red squirrel by competing for food, carrying disease, and even sometimes attacking the native species. I got a petition from someone who objected to the Forestry Commission offering grants for grey squirrel control. Sadly there was no way I could let the person posting it know they are perhaps a little misguided. I rather suspect that if a branch fell on them because it had been damaged by a squirrel, they would be demanding the land owner 'did something about it'. I have seen the whole top of a tree dead because of ring barking by squirrels for instance.
dpack

introduced species ? native species ?

for example it isnt that long ago what is now the uk had "native polar bears"eating the seals we still have and apart from arctic char in a few lakes most of the non salty fish we have now would not be "native" pre recent melt.

our "native" lions and hippos dont seem to be thriving although they were doing fine when the mud under traffy square was deposited.

any environment that suits a critter is it's natural habitat if it arrives there .

the non native ukippy stuff applies even less to critters than it does to people

ps the seals had to adapt a bit to the "heatwave"

the arucaria forests are gone as are most of the more recent ones based on pine or broadleaf

the forign rhinos and pandas are redundant in evolutionary terms as their habitats are gone but rats and pigeons have plenty of scope to thrive and adapt in the urban landscapes

my point is there is no such thing as a good or native species ,there are effective species for any environment (some are good at geoengineering to human advantage as a bonus)

ideas such as rats on an island are "bad"and the incumbent birds are "good"misses the point , there has been and will be a succession of life forms that exist or at times become dominant in environments which change for a variety of reasons .

ps bio diversity on a local or global stage comes from an odd combination of stability ,stress ,mobility and isolation.
Falstaff

introduced species ? native species ?

for example it isnt that long ago what is now the uk had "native polar bears"eating the seals we still have and apart from arctic char in a few lakes most of the non salty fish we have now would not be "native" pre recent melt.

our "native" lions and hippos dont seem to be thriving although they were doing fine when the mud under traffy square was deposited.

any environment that suits a critter is it's natural habitat if it arrives there .

the non native ukippy stuff applies even less to critters than it does to people

ps the seals had to adapt a bit to the "heatwave"

the arucaria forests are gone as are most of the more recent ones based on pine or broadleaf

the forign rhinos and pandas are redundant in evolutionary terms as their habitats are gone but rats and pigeons have plenty of scope to thrive and adapt in the urban landscapes

my point is there is no such thing as a good or native species ,there are effective species for any environment (some are good at geoengineering to human advantage as a bonus)

ideas such as rats on an island are "bad"and the incumbent birds are "good"misses the point , there has been and will be a succession of life forms that exist or at times become dominant in environments which change for a variety of reasons .

ps bio diversity on a local or global stage comes from an odd combination of stability ,stress ,mobility and isolation.


I can't say fairer than I agree with that Smile
Mistress Rose

Sorry Dpack but I can't agree. If you allow dominant alien species without the predators that exist in their native environment, you end up with a complete lack of biodiversity. Think of the effect mink have on everything they come across. Would you like a country dominated by mink and rats? I certainly wouldn't.

Yes, the climate has changed dramatically over geological time in what is now the UK, so dinosaurs, elephants, polar bears, who cannot co-exist anyway are extinct here. Some things like panda, which are vegetarian bears, are something of an evolutionary enigma. Whether they are a 'trying it to see if it works' or a 'path to be followed' in evolutionary terms is anyones guess as our understanding is incomplete and timescales of study too short.
gregotyn

Not wanting to argue with anyone, just to ask is the badger a native species?
I come from the school of thought that the best badgers are dead badgers. When I found a cub out of its sett I contacted the badger rescue in Ruthin; the cub did not ask to be born, but they the rescue people said it was too far to come, and the Shropshire gang, who I first contacted, wouldn't come as it was not on their patch. The Ruthin lot did ring up 4 days after I rang to ask how it was, but I explained that all animals, badgers included, don't live long without food!
dpack

beaver facts

ps badgers are a post last melt uk species about 10000yrs or so like most "native "species
Mistress Rose

Rather sad Nick. I agree with Dpack that they are native.

Has anything further been done about the beavers in Devon? I see from the article that permission has been obtained for them to stay subject to tests, but do these need to wait until spring? I know that beavers tend to retreat mainly to their lodges in the winter, but don't know if they stay there all the time in the UK.
Nick

Moi? dpack

on the subject of dominant alien species without natural predators

do humans fit that description in most landscapes ?
Mistress Rose

Sorry, can't think why I thought it was Nick that posted. It was Gregotyn. Sorry both.

No, Dpack, I don't think so. Humans have inhabited most parts of the world from before the last ice age, and they have plenty of natural predators. Certainly in the UK and other heavily populated countries, most of the predators have been destroyed, but humans recolonized the UK as the ice retreated, in the same way as other animals.
Nick

No worries. I thought I might have posted drunk. Smile I tend to operate in a beaver free zone, tho. Mistress Rose

They are a bit thin on the ground round here too as we don't have any streams within a few miles. We do have one coup in the woods called Beaver Acre though. The man that did the coppicing for us used a machete, and worked round some of the stems high like a beaver. We finished them lower with a chainsaw. Looked just like the beaver work in Devon. He went there afterwards....... sgt.colon

Re: good news cos they build watersheds

beaver photos included

Not what I was expecting DPack. Razz Very Happy
sean

Devon welcomes tapeworm-free beavers. dpack

good ,they will have to watch out they avoid well dogged trees if they want to stay worm free .

that worm is a classic for canine infestations as are many of that worm type.

wyrms

one possible cause of the spread through europe might be urban foxes but puppy farming/trafficking is another and more plausible vector,it is unlikely that beaver transport is a major factor but it is good they pass as healthy
Mistress Rose

Good to hear they are parasite free.

If dogs carry this parasite, how come there isn't more control of it in dogs?
dpack

many folk are not good at worming mutts ,if one uses a broad spectrum spot on for most vermin and an oral specific for the tape worm varieties then the beaver relevant ones are included in the fallen.

the rise in farmed/trafficked fashionable and pedigree pups from the extended eu and post(avoiding)the rabies controls has given good vectors for a variety of parasites and diseases to spread to new areas.

worming is not not only good for bonzo ,worming is good for everything except worms.
Mistress Rose

General dog health is a good thing. One thing that worries me about the dog muck left in the woods is that foxes or badgers can catch something from it. That is apart from the risk of stepping in it or getting it on our hands if something falls in it. sean

And they're back dpack

with no harm perhaps but that last photo seems a bit intrusive Shocked

a slight aside is that "alien"species of plants are now officially considered of little importance to "native"species of plant
Mistress Rose

Glad the beavers are officially healthy and released. Lets hope they can live happily with the locals.

Depends on what it is, but I would disagee with the statement about alien plants. We are very worried about Spanish bluebell invading our English bluebell wood.
buzzy

I see the Daily Wail's headline is a careful and measured response -

"Fears grow as ravenous tree-eaters as big as collie dogs return to an English river - Are beavers about to chew up Britain?"


Henry
Mistress Rose

They do try to find the best angle to make a wail don't they? Laughing sean

They're breeding dpack

ace Mistress Rose

It seems even now some people, mainly the fishermen, are not happy, but as I understand it, the beavers will be left for a set period to see what impact they have. dpack

if the fishermen wait a bit they might be surprised at all the extra fish.beaver dams not only protect against flood and drought but they provide an environment for fry as well as a good feeding ground.

both trout and salmon have co existed with beaver for a very long time
sean

They've disappeared. dpack

i saw that on the telly,beeverman hopes they have moved as they were getting too much attention and mutt trouble .

it might be worth watching out for any new homes( or hats )
Slim

This is fairly amusing from the perspective of someone living in an area that is awash in beaver.

It's not unheard of for dynamite to ocassionally be employed upon dams to avoid flooding roadways
Mistress Rose

We have been through the canalisation of streams and rivers, and the current thinking is that snags and obstructions like beaver dams is a good thing as it slows the water flow down, which reduces flooding downstream, which is where most of the towns are.

I hope the beavers have just gone into hiding and turn up safe. It was nice to know we had beavers in the UK again.
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