| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| Behemoth |
Govt proposals for your rubbishhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6685409.stm |
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| Jamanda |
I think this, in theory, is a good idea.
As long as they take the rubbish collection bit out Council tax, then hammer the people who create lots of rubbish, leaving those who do make the effort better off. |
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| boisdevie1 |
I think that the idea is perfectly fine. PROVIDED that all councils provide decent facilities for recycling. It would certainly make people think long and hard about what they throw out. But I suspect that many who don't really care will start throwing the phrase 'stealth tax' around. | ||||
| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
agreed, but my cynical mind says that won't happen. Will there be issues with 'bin rage' where folk are caught putting excess rubbish in neighbour's bins? The amount we now put out, we'd do well but what about those who can't or won't change? Large families for example. We're down to edumucation again I guess 
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| Behemoth |
There was a programme on TV, Trevor MacDonald "We're all doomed" sort of thing, and they ran a trial for how 'ordinary' people would be affected. The Greenies were between £20 and £100 a year better off. Older couples who made no effort were about the same. Large families who made no effort were about £60 worse off. The group worst affected were the student HMOs who made no effort as they were "too busy". | ||||
| Andy B |
How is it supposed to work, where we are we put our bags out on the morning they collect and to be helpfull we usually pile them together, so a number of houses rubbish will be in one pile. How will they know who put out what? | ||||
| Vic |
Re: Govt proposals for your rubbish
I really like the first comment on there - 'so we can monitor every rubbish bin in the country but not three suspected terrorists?' 
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| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
Re: Govt proposals for your rubbish
sums up our priorities really doesn't it
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| sean |
Well unrestrained consumption and rubbish generation is a bigger long-term threat than three suspected terrorists. | ||||
| Jamanda |
In County Donegal the shops sell special, very distinctive council bin bags at a cost - This is how the money is collected. If you need a lot of bags it costs you a lot of money. Putting unmarked bags out is treated as fly tipping. They also don't provide free plastic bags in super markets. I don't see why having a large family should make any difference. If you choose to have a lot of kids, then why should other people subsidise your rubbish collection? |
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| Behemoth |
The bins fitted with chips provide data on the weight of materials being disposed of through conventional bins and green bins. This is used to build a picture of which areas are recycling and which are not. However it doesn't cover volume or type of material so is difficult to justify as a crude charging method. | ||||
| Cho-ku-ri |
So I can expect Sunday drivers to fly tip their rubbish in my wood then.  Some do at the moment when the bins are free, so I can only imagine it will get worse. I have said before, any foods overly packaged should have VAT on them, that would encourage us all to buy more sensibly or pay via VAT for the collection of the wrappers. Potatoes in a paper sack Vat Free. Oven chips in a plastic bag add 17.5% tax. All the tills and systems are already in place. This ‘Green Tax’ could be implemented overnight. 
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| Andy B |
Will people be allowed to burn rubbish or just leave it festering in the back garden. I assume you cant force people to pay to have it taken away? | ||||
| Jamanda |
Yes, thats a good idea too. |
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| Treacodactyl |
Charging for rubbish does seem to work in other countries and there are details in previous threads here. The fly-tipping issue can easily be solved IMHO. I don't think it's currently treated seriously and, in the very rare prosecutions, the fines have been tiny. If the issue was treated more seriously then people would find it cheaper to reduce waste or dispose of it properly.
You could tax packaging but what about all the other stuff that forms waste? |
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| wizz |
The thing that irritates me about our local council (who are keen to tell the world how good they are at recycling) is that they don't provide every household with the same service.
Most of York and its surrounding villages have kerbside recycling collections, however we live in the countryside (not within the city or a local village) so have to make special recycling trips (to recycling facilities located in places that already have kerbside collections...) I know its only a small point but i do get irritated by their self congratulatory posters! |
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| alison |
What hope do we have with fly tippers, when the last lot we reported turned out to be sub contractors the council had employed, and the council still weren't interested.
They eventually cleared it when I made a nuicence of myself. |
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| dougal |
Anyone who thinks that litter and fly dipping would not increase under such a regime is seriously (potentially dangerously) out of touch with large elements of the british public.
I'm afraid I can see potential for all manner of mischief, like putting stuff in other folks bins, swapping the chips around, or even simply nicking someone else's bin, and letting them pay the bill. Then there's the possibility of 'mistakenly' reporting your own bin missing, even though its round the corner and its you that's filling it... I can't see the admin (and enforcement) being worth the candle. And it makes littering economically worthwhile. Daft. IMHO. Plastics recycling is a matter of careful sorting. Here, even sorting plastic from glass and metal is done by the bin men. Their instructions relate to the type of item, not the material. "Because they aren't experts, and don't have the time to look for recycling symbols." Not a clever scheme, IMHO. But then the targets that they have been set relate to "% recycled" by weight - not value. 'Green' bins (locally they are the ones with a brown top). Its very nice to have such a service, but usage of it is highly variable. Such things should only be needed by folks with gardens. Who ought to have a compost heap/bin of their own. It only gets used for the stuff I really don't want in my heap, like nettle roots, ivy, etc. And if you are clearing ivy, the bin seems terribly small. But if everyone did the sensible thing and made a compost heap, then the municipal 'green' bins would have nothing but the real dross and then... hmmm. Anyway, aren't we lucky we don't live in Naples, where its hot, and because they have run out of landfill sites, very smelly... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6684635.stm 
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| Treacodactyl |
I don't think I'm out of touch with the British public at all. Currently there's a large amount of fly tipping etc but nothing much is done. If rubbish charging was brought in and nothing else changed then I agree fly tipping would increase but if you had some meaningful penalties then perhaps the problem would actually be reduced. I don't regard a £200 fine for a builder who's probably charging £10k per job as meaningful.
Again I'll mention that other countries have introduced charging and don't seem to have had too many problems. One example is lockable bins although, IIRC, people found they didn't need to lock their bins. Even when streets have weekly recycling collections many people still throw out far too much rubbish and it's about time something done about it and done now. |
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| dougal |
Treac, it was the politicians I was thinking of, rather than your own good self.
Sadly (personal opinion!), legislation that could be introduced and accepted universally in, say, Switzerland simply wouldn't work in the UK. My call is that this is one such. Just my call. Its IMHO. But it is my opinion that this is going to go down very badly, and I doubt such a scheme is sustainable. Have I missed the proposals to further dramatically increase the penalties (and lower the burden of proof) for flytipping and littering? I'd agree that such action would be an essential part of such a plan, and that without it, this scheme doesn't have much chance. |
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| Treacodactyl |
Sadly I doubt it, IMHO this government doesn't have a good record when it comes to implementing things properly. |
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| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
someone in our village was fined £600 for flytipping a wardrobe in a country lane (despite there being a proper tip not 3 miles away) so some councills are on the ball. The paper reported that the court thought of removing his driving licence for a 6 month period as further punishment as well but didn't. He was caught by a hidden camera as it was a lane which had a bit of a flytipping problem. | ||||
| Behemoth |
Here's a link to the white paper:
http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/waste/strategy/index.htm |
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| Behemoth |
A consultation on giving incentives to recyle. I think that will probably be money of free ipods...
http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/waste-incentives/index.htm |