| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| mechanicalmouse |
Greeting from outside LoughboroughHello Downsizers and smallholders.At the moment I'm investigating the reality of a dream. It's the common dream of escaping the 9-5 treadmill (well it longer than 9-5 now), living by our own means and removing the various shackles of modern life. I'm breaking down finances of starting and running a small holding, and finding the real implications of living "the good life". At the moment, I’m still trying to get some sample costs of boring a well and connecting to the national grid. I intend to have a wind turbine to bring in income. My other thoughts are on Holidays, how can you take a holiday from you smallholding? I am aware that at certain times a day’s work will be far more than what I do now, but I envisage that are there quieter time. Or am I setting myself and my family for 365 days of continuous hard labour? |
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| Nick |
The latter. But, the worst day working for yourself will be better than the best day working for a boss. | ||||
| gil |
Re: Greeting from outside Loughborough
What's a holiday ? Easier if you don't have livestock. If you can afford it there are smallholding-sitting services available, such as our member Pel's - check out the link in her profile. If you can't, you might be able to reciprocate the favour with small-holding friends wherever you end up living. Yeh, more or less 365-day work, and never just 9-5. |
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| mechanicalmouse |
Wow, thanks for the quick replies.
Livestock would be limited to chickens, maybe a goat. But I don't think would could handle or need any more. Our plan is to grow what we need rather than grow to sell. We do have family near by that could do basic feeding/watering but I couldn't impose more than that. Sure there would be a killer amount of weeding to do when we get back.
Are you truthfully saying that every day would be a dawn start, continous weeding, feeding, cleaning, planting and so on until the sun sets? As I said I can see days, specially during havesting and sowing, where this would be an absolute, but are there really no quite times where things are ticking along? I've pretty much signed up here for a reality check on this. |
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| Nick |
It'll depend on your finances. Are you going to owe anything? Have anything to spend for daily living that you haven't got to earn? | ||||
| mechanicalmouse |
The plan is to owe as little as possible before we start. Current calculations, give us need for a £10'000 loan over 10 years would be about 130 a month. However with that we've got Land, temporary accommodation in the form of 4 caravans, 7000w wind turbine, septic system, polytunnels, 6 months of supplies. Not been able to factor in Bore hole and National grid connection since I've got no tangable figures. So this £10K could jump dramatically. I'm looking to get land in our area so I can continue working while we settle in, which should give us a lot of money to reduce that £10'000. I've done energy calculations based on the turbine being 50% effective, and over estimating our downsized energy usage (even in our modern life style our usage is well under the national average). We should be able to make about £360 a month selling the Electricity. All Monthly costs are looking at about £490 so currently so there's a big deficite. IF we can clear the loan before I leave my job that brings things in ballance. But I've not factored in child benefits or any other govenment hand outs. Monthly costs cover Loan, annual bills/12, Gas refills, house and contents insurance, TV, telephone, £40 a month for non grown food, £20 on Disposables (TP,nappies,etc), £40 put aside for repairs/upkeep, £50 for savings and £30 on fuel. I want to point out under our current oppresive mortgage and loans, we already live on a very small amount about £30-40 a week on shopping. Frugal living is our current nature. I'm sure by the time we start full time I can get money in ballance with a little more for saving. |
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| mechanicalmouse |
Just realised no animal feed, in the monthly figures. | ||||
| gil |
You need to generate money for things other than just food.
So either you will still be working part-time or full-time, or you will be trying to make some money off your land and its produce, which is why you will spend a lot of time working. And still not making very much money. There was a thread on here a few weeks back in Chat, called something like 'how to make money from a smallholding'. You might find it instructive. I'll see if I can find a link. |
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| Nick |
What are you planning on keeping? | ||||
| gil |
here's that thread | ||||
| mechanicalmouse |
I terms of animals, a few chickens and maybe a goat for milk (and lawn mowing).
True, but I do want to get out of my current work life. Unfortunately getting part time work in IT Support is a practical impossibility. I maybe able to get occasional money from offering IT services, but I've already investigated this as an "Escape Plan" before and it would never give a guaranteed income. |
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| Nick |
Keep asking. On this site there are people from all angles of the grid you're looking at, from full time IT professionals, down to full time self sufficient people. There are, in between, a lot of IT funded people working part time, or reduced hours, or with other income streams from their land/plot/farm/estate/cottage industry. | ||||
| mechanicalmouse |
I was already reading through that. Prostitution and all that. The problem is, as people mentioned, the market is rather full of fresh food boxes. And to make money from those requires a preplanned surplus probally several time that of our own consumption, and therefore a multiplication in our work. |
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| mechanicalmouse |
wellington womble mentioned in that thread about the difference between a job and a hobby, and how having to do a hobbies as a job kills all enjoyment from it.
That is what has happened to me. IT used to be a hobby I was lucky enough to get paid for, but now I am stuck at the point where it is a job, and one I don't enjoy. There is so much more than "the hobby" that I have to do, and those tasks are growing by the day. I'm being drowned in work, responsibility and bureaucracy. Growing, building and cooking are hobbies right now, but even if they where constant necessary hobbies, needed to survive I can’t see them turning into drudgery as long as there are quiet times. Right now, I work 8-4:30 or 9-5:30. When on the late shift I see my children for less than 2 hours a day. I have no flexibility in my life, I can’t take a few hours out of work to see my daughters play, or to help my wife and yet work demands I lose family time when things go wrong or there are sudden deadline changes. What is the Work/Life balance of self sufficiency? |
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| Ginkotree |
Spending more time with the children is great if they want to join in with all the projects you have on the go, ..one of my sons did not share any interest in the farm for years while the other joined in a lot more, but I still spent a lot of time with me outdoors and them in, together but not really spending "quality time". We almost have less family time as we used to make a point of "getting away from it all " and have days out as well as holidays...dont do that now, some one is always at the farm.
Christmas morning, the animals come before the presents..... Something you think is going to be a quick job generally takes longer,and if it is quicker it is a pleasant surprise... This simply becomes "A way of Life",taking time to catch up with emals at midnight....and enjoying the highs and lows of it all, because they are yours, not governed by a boss...by lots of other things,taxes, new legislations,laws, health..it all still affects everything ,more so in someways when you have responsibilities for extra members of your "family"...(livestock and plants) This way of life is what makes sense to me, to others its a nightmare. 
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| mechanicalmouse |
Thanks everyone for the Reality check. While I think I could live and on the most be happy devoting my life to farm and field, I'm not so sure about the rest of my family.
I'm not giving up on the Dream, I can't, but I'm going to have to figure out how to make it work with out sacrificing my family. We've got our vegetable garden and fruit trees, I think we'll see the effect of a weeks holiday on those crops and our conscripted workers (the in-laws) over that period. I'll have to think over the money side of things too, but I feel any part-time work I could get will have to be non IT related. I'll still be on the Forum, specially when thing start going odd with our current crops, and I'm looking forward to getting to know you guys better. |
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| Blacksmith |
Welcome to the forum, plenty of valuable advice here. 
(Lot of nonsense as well )
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| Ginkotree |
Seems to me that you are looking at things from all angles, so if and when you do take the plunge you will have evened out a lot of things and not end up in shock at the fact that you have gone for the dream......
I realised that if I did not go for my dream the children would have ended up far worse because they would have a very unhappy parent trapped in a place I did not belong or want to be. They might have lost out on holidays and such things that others cannot live without, but I feel they have had a better quality of parent because I am happier here than anywhere else regardless. They have not both always understood but I know it has given them permission to dream thier own dreams and strive to achieve them,taking risks with the chance ofsuccess..and being inventive when things fail....all in all a very realistic ,grounded way of life in a world that is full of risk assessments, health and safety and where goggles and gaunlets have to be worn when playing conkers... I talked to my eldest son as he remembers holidays more than the youngest and he said" Yes holidays were great, but now we are living in the holiday house"..we used to come to places like this to get away from it all. Good luck... |