Treacodactyl
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Growing fruit trees in woodlandHopefully this winter we'll be planting some fruit trees in an open area of woodland. There's established woodland on three sides but the trees originally planted in this area have died probably due to deer browsing. The soil is a deep clay and it's quite damp.
As the idea will be to have decent sized trees with the branches above deer-browsing height I'm wondering what rootstock would be best? Would it be possible or wise to try and use un-grafted trees?
I don't think we'll use deer fencing so some form of tree protection will be essential. Looking at prices and considering the tree trunks might need long term protection we're considering making our own tree guards out of chicken wire.
Is there any other things to thing about other than the usual considerations when choosing fruit trees? We'll start of with just a few trees for the first winter and see how they get on before planting more.
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orangepippin
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I recently visited a small orchard in a walled garden surrounded by mature large woodland trees. One of the issues in this situation is the potential lack of light - not sure from your description if that will be a problem in your case, but clay and damp clearly could be. Everything gets very vertical, especially pear trees, which tend to grow very vertically anyway.
I don't have much experience of growing standard trees (I think dwarf ones are more interesting!), but they do require some pruning/training in the first few years to get the branches to start at the required height. There's a temptation to just let the tree grow, which it will, but the trunk will not thicken up sufficently to support the top. The M25 rootstock is well-regarded for apples in general but I am not sure of its performance in damp/clay - I think it is OK. It would certainly be interesting to try own-root trees, if you can find them, although I don't think they necessarily get as big as you might expect (in the case of apples at least). Maybe plums might be a better bet, either on own-roots on a vigorous rootstock - they are a bit more vigourous.
In terms of varieties, it seems that you have combination of challenges - clay, damp, access to light. I would certainly talk to a good nurseryman in order to get the best varieties for the situation.
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Nick
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So, if I have some full sized trees, which are about 8 years old, with thin trunks, should I be removing lower branches, or have I missed the boat? Is it something I can do now, or at another time of year?
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orangepippin
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| Nick wrote: | | So, if I have some full sized trees, which are about 8 years old, with thin trunks, should I be removing lower branches, or have I missed the boat? Is it something I can do now, or at another time of year? |
I'm not an expert on this sort of thing, but I think it is too late. I think you will just have to wait and let them grow, they will get there eventually. The idea of the early pruning of standards and half-standards is to prune the leader back and then "grow on" a new one until the desired stem height is reached. This thickens up the trunk. I learnt this by not doing it - I now have a 12ft Denniston's Superb with a trunk that bends alarmingly in the slightest wind.
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Nick
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Thanks. I guess nature will sort it out.
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Hairyloon
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If you think you've got a problem with the birds nicking your fruit out of the garden, wait 'till you try growing fruit in a wood.
Good luck.
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Tavascarow
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Growing fruit ungrafted will produce a stronger more disease resistant tree but will probably take 8 to 10 years to get to fruiting.
The rootstock not only determines the overall size but speed of fruiting as well.
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Treacodactyl
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| Hairyloon wrote: | If you think you've got a problem with the birds nicking your fruit out of the garden, wait 'till you try growing fruit in a wood.
Good luck. |
Getting fruit isn't the only reason but looking at trees you often find growing wild they still provide a large amount of fruit even with all the wildlife.
Even if there's lots of predation some might be useful. We have a huge wild cherry tree in our garden and the pigeons love the unripe fruit, if we were a bit more remote I'd gladly give up the cherries for some pigeon!
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Treacodactyl
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Thanks for the comments OP and Tavascarow. I'm aware that the rootstocks will have an impact on how long it is before the tree fruits. Although fruit isn't the only reason it would be good to get some fruit earlier than 5 - 10 years which seems likely with M25 or non-grafted trees. Interesting to know about the pruning, something else to look into.
Trees on more dwarfing rootstocks would require a fenced off pen to keep the deer off which I'm not overly keen on doing but on the other hand I bet I'd have a better range of trees and they would be easier to care for and pick.
As for the light, the area is quite big and south facing. Wind might be a bit of a problem.
There are a couple of apple trees already growing and they seem to be happy. Loads of blossom but hardly any fruit set. Hopefully a few more trees and the odd crab apple and the existing trees might set fruit next year.
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orangepippin
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I have been told that a good technique when establishing a traditional standard orchard is to plant the main trees at the usual 7m spacing, then plant dwarf trees in between. The dwarf trees will give you a crop in years 2-8 (after which you rip them out) and the standard trees will by then have started to take over. That sounds ideal for you, except for the deer problem.
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Treacodactyl
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I could also plant some hazel cultivars in between as I know hazel does well and there's no squirrels at the moment. If it's going to be fenced then getting as much in as possible would be wise.
As we're talking long term I might try and take some cuttings of our current apples to start with and buy some trees grafted onto suitable rootstocks.
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RichardW
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| Treacodactyl wrote: | I could also plant some hazel cultivars in between as I know hazel does well and there's no squirrels at the moment. If it's going to be fenced then getting as much in as possible would be wise.
As we're talking long term I might try and take some cuttings of our current apples to start with and buy some trees grafted onto suitable rootstocks. |
What about some Hazel Truffle trees? Not much extra cost if bulk buying.
Richard
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Treacodactyl
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I've though about them, especially as there's areas of oak, hazel, and some young beech doing very well but the ground is acidic and for conservation reasons I don't want to use anything alkaline on the soil.
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