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Nell Merionwen

Gun laws for 12 year olds. (In Australia)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18688488


Well?

Personally, I don't see that a 12 year old should ever be left alone with a gun. How would you be sure they have been able to "distance themselves" and not be upset at the outcome?
Also how would you be sure they are shooting the right prey and not something that is protected?
Should we be promoting hunting as fun rather than a necessary sport?
Is this not adding to the worry about children becoming too conditioned to guns and killing, compounding the potential problem of children playing inappropriate games. Becoming blasť about guns and killing?
Treacodactyl

It depends on the individual. I would be happier with some 12 year old children shooting than some adults and visa-versa.
Pilsbury

I have had an air rifle since I was 14, my dad bought it for me and I have grown up with a healthy respect for firearms and quarry.
Mary-Jane

It depends on the individual. I would be happier with some 12 year old children shooting than some adults and visa-versa.


Same here. I was brought up around guns and I have handled them since I was younger than 12. My eldest (now late) brother taught me to shoot and more importantly, drummed all the safety issues into me too.
Nell Merionwen

perhaps the 12 year olds should go through some sort of screening to ensure they know what is involved and that they are safe?
I would be more concerned by the amount of children who could get their hands on a gun without any sort of training or instruction.
Pilsbury

Actually having read the whole article I might have to re think, not on the gun issue but I read its as 12 - 17 yo hunting alone with knives, dogs and bows. No mention of under 18 alone with guns and they can already hunt with supervision with firearms from the age of 12.
I really don't fancy letting 12 year olds out with just a knife against a feral pig......
Treacodactyl

perhaps the 12 year olds should go through some sort of screening to ensure they know what is involved and that they are safe?


Where does it say in that article they don't?
Nell Merionwen

perhaps the 12 year olds should go through some sort of screening to ensure they know what is involved and that they are safe?

Where does it say in that article they don't?

I have not suggested they do or don't, I am stating that it is a wise thing to do.
My query is not about whether they have the right to hunt or not but is more about whether they should be left alone to do so.
NorthernMonkeyGirl

My sensible head says that "tribesmen" (for want of a better word) are out hunting and gathering from a very early age - why are Westernised children such delicate little flowers?
However, it is so dependent on the culture the child has grown up in, and their own temperament. A 12 year old Aussie who has watched Mum or Dad hunt, skin/gut/clean, cook etc I would probably trust. A 12 year old from down the road here? No chance!
Treacodactyl

perhaps the 12 year olds should go through some sort of screening to ensure they know what is involved and that they are safe?

Where does it say in that article they don't?

I have not suggested they do or don't, I am stating that it is a wise thing to do.
My query is not about whether they have the right to hunt or not but is more about whether they should be left alone to do so.

Why not? I can't see a valid reason to not allow say a 17 year old to hunt on their own if they've hunted for years with someone over 17.

I don't really know enough to know if the age limit should be 12, I would hope the childs parent or guardian to decide that. What do you think the age limit it should be and why?
Nell Merionwen

perhaps the 12 year olds should go through some sort of screening to ensure they know what is involved and that they are safe?

Where does it say in that article they don't?

I have not suggested they do or don't, I am stating that it is a wise thing to do.
My query is not about whether they have the right to hunt or not but is more about whether they should be left alone to do so.

Why not? I can't see a valid reason to not allow say a 17 year old to hunt on their own if they've hunted for years with someone over 17.

I don't really know enough to know if the age limit should be 12, I would hope the childs parent or guardian to decide that. What do you think the age limit it should be and why?

It's a big question.
I have a 13 year old boy who has been hunting with his Grandpa on many occasions. I have absolutely no issues about his safety or responsibility.
However, I would not allow him to go alone. 12 year olds (boys in particular in my experience) are given to being a bit "silly" and are prone to bravado. This would worry me.
there is a world of difference between a responsible teen shooting/culling on their own land for the good of the land. Going "hunting" gives me a different picture.
I also know that by the age of 14/15 the two teenage boys that I know well and have handled guns have become a lot more mature in those few years.
I don't think that I am well qualified to say what age it should be. I am not a professional in child development and can only go by my own experience.
I personally have not met a single 12 year old boy I would happily send off hunting with no adult supervision. However, I grew up in a typical suburban British home. Not out in the Australian outback.
I think a blanket law of allowing 12 year olds to hunt without supervision is a dangerous can of worms. You may well make life easier for rural farmers to allow their young offspring to help. This I can see would be a good thing. However, you are also allowing the 12 year olds who have no prior experience to have unsupervised permission to do the same.
I think any dangerous equipment should have a restriction upon it. From driving to handling a dangerous weapon. I also wouldn't like to see a 12 year old behind the wheel of a car without adult supervision.

So in conclusion I believe 12 to be too young.
vegplot

13 then? Perhaps 14, or 15? Where would you draw the line? Is age a good metric or are there others that would serve better such as maturity, training, responsibility? Nick

I imagine the law would require an age. That's not to prevent additional checks and balances such as training, supervision, police checks, or whatever, but I think age age has to be included. And it will be wrong for some people, wherever you put it. Nell Merionwen

13 then? Perhaps 14, or 15? Where would you draw the line? Is age a good metric or are there others that would serve better such as maturity, training, responsibility?

Personally I would like to say 16. However, I know that would be unreasonable.
As I said, I am not an expert in child development. I am, however and expert in my own son. 12 would not have been old enough. He is showing greater maturity and perhaps by 14 or 15 he would be fine.
I don't know the answer. I do feel (and this is my own personal feelings) that 12 is too young.
Hairyloon

My sensible head says that "tribesmen" (for want of a better word) are out hunting and gathering from a very early age - why are Westernised children such delicate little flowers?
However, it is so dependent on the culture the child has grown up in...
Exactly.
In some cultures they'd have an AK47 and a grenade launcher by the time they're that age.
Nell Merionwen

My sensible head says that "tribesmen" (for want of a better word) are out hunting and gathering from a very early age - why are Westernised children such delicate little flowers?
However, it is so dependent on the culture the child has grown up in...
Exactly.
In some cultures they'd have an AK47 and a grenade launcher by the time they're that age.

and how is that a good thing?
NorthernMonkeyGirl

My sensible head says that "tribesmen" (for want of a better word) are out hunting and gathering from a very early age - why are Westernised children such delicate little flowers?
However, it is so dependent on the culture the child has grown up in...
Exactly.
In some cultures they'd have an AK47 and a grenade launcher by the time they're that age.

and how is that a good thing?

It's not, at all, but it illustrates how amazing a young human can be.

I've written that 3 times now and that's the least-wrong sounding version!
Hairyloon

My sensible head says that "tribesmen" (for want of a better word) are out hunting and gathering from a very early age - why are Westernised children such delicate little flowers?
However, it is so dependent on the culture the child has grown up in...
Exactly.
In some cultures they'd have an AK47 and a grenade launcher by the time they're that age.

and how is that a good thing?

Oh, so your culture is better than theirs is it?
Treacodactyl

My sensible head says that "tribesmen" (for want of a better word) are out hunting and gathering from a very early age - why are Westernised children such delicate little flowers?
However, it is so dependent on the culture the child has grown up in...
Exactly.
In some cultures they'd have an AK47 and a grenade launcher by the time they're that age.

and how is that a good thing?

Oh, so your culture is better than theirs is it?

Well, a rabbit isn't going to be that fit for the table if you use a grenade launcher or even an AK47.
Nell Merionwen

My sensible head says that "tribesmen" (for want of a better word) are out hunting and gathering from a very early age - why are Westernised children such delicate little flowers?
However, it is so dependent on the culture the child has grown up in...
Exactly.
In some cultures they'd have an AK47 and a grenade launcher by the time they're that age.

and how is that a good thing?

Oh, so your culture is better than theirs is it?

It's actually got little to do with culture. Involving Children in open warfare is never right, neither is condoning it under the guise of "culture"
Nick

Is it ok foe them to have a gun if they're the oldest male in the family, defending their family? At 16 they could have kids, of course. Nell Merionwen

16 is a long way from 12 in the world of maturity. Jamanda

Hmm. I don't think the two are comparable. Anyone 16 or 60 needing a gun to defend their family isn't a good situation. And not what the OP asked about.

I'm in two minds about the hunting for youngsters. In a suitable place, with the right youngster and with effective training I could see it being OK. Unfortunately I could envisage many problems if it haapened in the wrong place with inadequate training.
Nell Merionwen


I'm in two minds about the hunting for youngsters. In a suitable place, with the right youngster and with effective training I could see it being OK. Unfortunately I could envisage many problems if it hapened in the wrong place with inadequate training.

The point I was trying to make. However, in a much more lucid way Laughing
Nick

16 is a long way from 12 in the world of maturity.

Who more mature, the 12 year old, eldest male in a war torn country who's been working forever, or a 16 year old here?
Nell Merionwen

Australia is not a war torn country!
The issue isn't about whether children should be allowed fire arms in extenuating circumstances. The issue is about entrusting a deadly weapon into the unsupervised hands of a child in a peaceful country.
Nick

It might become one if you give twelve year olds guns. Nell Merionwen

It might become one if you give twelve year olds guns.

I can't work out what your own opinion is Nick? Laughing
I feel I am being made to look unreasonable to think putting guns into the hands of children without supervision is not an altogether good thing.
Is this the case?
Nick

I don't really have one. I know that's not very trendy on the Internet, but I don't much care. Nell Merionwen

I don't really have one. I know that's not very trendy on the Internet, but I don't much care.

Well, that's honest Laughing
Pilsbury

Australia is not a war torn country!
The issue isn't about whether children should be allowed fire arms in extenuating circumstances. The issue is about entrusting a deadly weapon into the unsupervised hands of a child in a peaceful country.

I'm sorry Nell, I have read the article for a 3rd time and although It is very misleading with a picture of a child holding a rifle and talkijg to a father and son out shooting the change in the law would be to allow over 12 year old to hunt on public land with knives, bow's and pig hunting dogs, at no point that I can see does it say a child between 12 and 17 would he allowed to use a firearm unsupervised.
If I am wrong then I apologise hut I just can't see it.
Now letting kids out against a feral pig with a knife or bow would scare me to death hit that is a different issue.
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