| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| mochyn |
Home slaughterDon't know if this has been raised before, but here's a link to the new regs. in Wales:http://www.food.gov.uk/wales/regswales/regsguid_wales/homeslaughterlivestockwales Where you can download the document. |
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| RichardW |
About time too.
When the TSE reg came in I interpreted the regs that you could supply your family IF you followed the TSE rules on staining & disposal. Its taken them 2 to 3 years to come to the same conclusion. |
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| Gervase |
The Humane Slaughter Association has 'how to' guidelines at http://www.hsa.org.uk/Resources/Publications/Technical%20Notes/TN8.pdf | ||||
| Brownbear |
Pay attention to this line:
Even if not the cause of such drastic harm, it projects all the combustion gases into the skull of the animal, which usually explodes as a result. Not nice. Having been called out once to track and kill a pig horribly wounded by an inept would-be home slaughterer, I would advise people to be very, very sure that they know what they are doing before taking that route. |
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| Faithmead |
Well said BB. 
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| VSS |
Having said that really it is frighteningly easy to kill an animal! I am really pleased that there is a little more common sense creeping in to these regs. About time too. We are now slightly more legal than we were! |
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| Shan |
We get a slaughterman in to do ours. He did our lambs last year and he will do the pigs for our own consumption. Unfortunately, the rest will have to go to an abbatoir. I wish they didn't have to. Slaughtering at home is far less stressful for the animals. | ||||
| RichardW |
I would keep quiet about that if I was you. | ||||
| vegplot |
That make perfect sense given the muzzle blast of most of the guns I've handled. |
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| Shan |
"Slaughter on-farm by an itinerant slaughterman 25. It is unlawful for a farmer to use the services of an itinerant slaughterman both to slaughter his animal and to dress it. This is because the slaughterman would be supplying goods (i.e. a dressed carcase) in the course of his business. However, if the slaughterman did no more than kill the animal, leaving the farmer to dress and cut the carcase, the Courts might be less likely to conclude that the slaughterman was supplying goods (and more likely to be supplying services). If so, this activity might be held to be lawful, (i.e. the EU Food Hygiene Regulation 853/2004 would not prohibit it) although the issue is far from clear. The EU TSE controls would in any event apply." I think I would have a case to argue according to the guidance above. |
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| mochyn |
So how can itinerant slaughtermen be legal, then? 
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| RichardW |
As Shan obviously already knew. They are allowed to KILL but not "dress" or cut up in any way. Personally I feel that the slaughterman is providing his labour to you & is changing your animal into your produce. Just the same as if you hire a carpenter to build you some thing from wood you have grown. Its also worth noting that if the person is a licenced slaughterman his licence prohibits him from killing anywhere thats not a licenced premises. So the regs make a less experianced / qualified person do it. As far as I am aware there is still no mobile slaughter house service in the country. The prob is even if it was all self contained on a lorry every site it was used on would have to be licenced & have all the infrastructure in place. |
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| Stacey |
We used to have a mobile slughterman. I didn't like him though so we chose to go to the small abbatoir instead. I don't know if he still operates but afaia he was licensed. | ||||
| Mutton |
What's the position regarding mobile slaughtermen for geese and ducks? | ||||
| Shan |
The key issue is that I am paying for a service not for an animal. He ONLY slaughters it. | ||||
| RichardW |
He could be a licenced slaughterman if he has a job working in a slaughter house but the licence rules prohibit his "working" outside of a licenced premises. His licence is only valid whilst on those premises. Virtually anyone can be a kill the animal for you (as long as their FAC / shotty licence covers shooting that species, they cant use a captive bolt stunner, But you could). You could call that licenced I guess (but I would not). |
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| crofter |
I sometimes wonder. Every year I kill a few animals, sure it is illegal, but it is accepted here as a normal part of everyday life. I am not particularly concerned about being hauled in front of a judge,it has been happening since time began, and if I ever was arrested I hope my defence "cultural tradition" would win. Does anyone know of a case where somebody was prosecuted for killing their own meat? |
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| Shan |
His license might only be valid on the premises but his experience does not suddenly disappear. 
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| Shan |
I couldn't agree more. Frankly, if the government is serious about reducing air mles and waste, they would initiate a scheme where one could raise one's own animals, have a mobile slaughterman come in to do the deed and then allow you to sell any excess to people within your village. |
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| Rob R |
It's not, small scale producers are just a thorn in the side of food factory legislation. 
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| VSS |
I almost wish it would happen - how can you be prosecuted and punished for feeding your family? Any judge in his right mind would chuck it out and fine the authorities for wasting time. |
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| Shan |
There will be a point where they will have to be more practical. | ||||
| Stacey |
He was definitely licensed. It was a while back but he was legit. |
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| RichardW |
They dont issue licences for itinerant slaughter persons.
The slaughtermans licence prohibits him killing any place off the licenced premises. Every goverment document on this says clearly that it is illegal for one to kill & dress your animal. You can have some one (any one in fact) kill it for you as long as you dress it but there is no licence for doing so. I know that there used to be (some still do but on the QT now) lots of people going round offering this service that worked part time in a slaughter house so claimed to be licenced. 
From here So in 1995 there were no licences. |
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| RichardW |
Just to lighten the mood
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| Treacodactyl |
I think that sums up the choice at the next election as well. | ||||
| Bernie66 |
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| Rob R |
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| Ixy |
I agree with you, we should be able to kill our own (family's) meat but let's get real, the government don't care about reducing foodmiles! They get tax on lorry fuel, and tax from the haulage companies and they would rather deal with one big 'agribusiness' than thousands of small producers. |
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| Stacey |
Well, he was quoted on the BBC as being licensed up till 2004 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/3893881.stm I'm not really interested in splitting hairs and arguing the toss to the nth degree tbh. I have far more important things to be doing I'm just going by the local situation up till a few yrs back.
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| RichardW |
I think you missed the point. Up till 1995 there were no / few regs & they then got tighter & tighter plus they were implimented more as well. By 2004 they stamped down on precious regs & added more.
Even his quote
say GIVE US a licence. For years they got away with out any interferance from the maff & Defra lot. Anyway like you said there no point to this. Its dun & dusted now. Legally they have all stopped trading as full service slaughter persons & now just kill. But as with most things YMMV |
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| Stacey |
Is YMMV a trendy way of saying matter do it?
If so I concur. |
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| RichardW |
Your
Mileage May Vary |
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| Stacey |
Yes I know. | ||||
| bodger |
Captive Bolt Pistol.
I checked with the bods at the gunclub last night and they were of the opinion that if the gun was kept at a licensed slaughter house then a licence wasn't required as long as it stopped on the premises but that one was required if it was being taken from farm to farm. |
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| RichardW |
Well then they should stick to guns cos thats wrong.
You still need a licence for despatching pistols (like horse vets use) as they still use free bullets. |
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| bodger |
One of the lads had recently qualified as a licensed slaughterman, so I'll check with him again but he was quite adamant. | ||||
| Brownbear |
What you have to apply for is a variation to your FAC (Fire Arms Certificate) for a pistol for humane destruction. If you want a sound mod ('silencer') that is another item on the variation, and you must have as reason Health and Safety (hearing protection). To have a 'proper' handgun you need permission from the Home Secretary (given to people like professional bodyguards). What the Police will allow is a handgun limited to two shots. That means either a revolver with all but two of the chambers in the cylinder blocked with non-removable metal, or a pistol ('automatic' in movie-speak) with the magazine limited to two rounds capacity. Although in theory you could apply for something like a .44 Magnum if you were shooting cattle or horses, it's asking for trouble from the Police to ask for a hand-cannon like that. Anything of .9mm/.38 Special/.357 Magnum if doing large livestock, should go through. for sheep a .22 would do the job, for pigs I'd advise a .32. Be aware that if you use a whacking great round to shoot animals in the head, you stand a good chance of it coming out of the other side and ricocheting about the place like a hornet on speed. |
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| RichardW |
He has to be licenced to use it & cant use it off the premises. As was mentioned a licenced slaughterman cant kill off a licenced premises. But non commercial use does not require the slaughter person to be licenced & the stunner (& ammo) does not need a FAC in either case. Before 98 they would have also needed an FAC to buy / keep one. Ah BB dint know others could still own hand guns. Thought it was limited to Vets & race horse course officials etc. I have always worried about the "hornet on speed" factor. SG / captive bolt seems much safer. Richard |